Anyone remember Operation Eagle Claw - Hint: Iranian Hostage Crisis Rescue attempt (vanity)

Me | 11-13-2009 | Danae

[ansel12]

And that comment on how Beckwith wanted Navy pilots only?

I didn't say that, originally navy pilots were forced on Beckwith but he finally got rid of them and he wanted to court martial one of them for cowardice.

Everyone is mostly in agreement that the Marine pilots were the screw up that killed the mission.

[RaceBannon]

Credible Sport was after Desert One. the use of JATO rockets sure sounded risky. Saw a few videos on it, broke that ship up!

[ansel12]

In fact, according to one of the Marine air crews on site, they insisted they were willing to fly on to Tehran but it was Beckwith who insisted that all aircraft be 100% or his men wouldn't be getting on board that final leg.

It was the refusal to fly by a couple of Marine pilots that created the helicopter shortage, for instance helo five with the senior Marine on board that refused to continue on to Desert One and returned to the ship even though the co-pilot was protesting the action of turning back and aborting their mission.

[RaceBannon]

People who tell you that exaggerate, and I would like you to rephrase what you said about being forced upon Beckwith, because Beckwith had no say in who was flying at all.

That was Col Sieffert, NOT Beckwith’s decision.

As for errors, only people who dont know aviation make such blanet statements. When a BIMS indicator goes off, it means helicopter fall down, go boom. End of question. The pilot who abandoned that aircraft en route did the smart thing, they also had no spare blades nor did they bring NO2 tanks with them to recharge the spar and restart, IF it would restart in unfriendly territory!

As for the one that turned back, it had a failed avionics, I forgot which system now, sort of like the power steering and attitude control, and in that sand storm that popped up they could not see very well at all. He was unaware of his attitude, pitch and yaw, 100 deg in the cockpit, most likely airsick like his co-pilot most likely was. His major flaw was that he knew his flight time to Desert One was approx 5 hours and he had already flew 5 hours or so when he turned around. Col Sieffert made some strong comments about him, he certaily make a huge mistake, but his aircraft was in failure mode, too, like 3 of the others, so even if he made it to Desert One, if Beckwith acted like he did for Bluebird 02, he would have refused to put his men on the OTHER Bluebird aircaft that turned back.

As for original Navy pilots?? Where did that come from? NO ONE wanted Navy to be the only pilots, while Col Kyle wanted AIR FORCE pilots.

You might have your story crossed due to time. Sorry to tear your head off, but I was there, too, off the coast and my squadron was flying SAR when they took off for the Nimitz.

This is my site
http://www.rescueattempt.com

[ansel12]

People who tell you that exaggerate

The "people" would be the commander of the Air Force component of the mission who was commander of the Desert 1 landing zone. Colonel James H. Kyle told that in his book "The Guts to Try".

Colonel Beckwith himself told me about wanting to court martial one of the navy pilots, they were replaced eventually. As the Delta Force creator and commander don't say that Beckwith did not have some influence and voice in his own mission although not enough.

[Danae]

He is a seriously credentialed Air Force Vet and Professor. This is his Bio at AMU (He has about 5 BILLION tons more credibility than I do.): MA, Military history, University of Alabama, 1991 Biography Stephen B. Bacon has served as an adjunct professor at American Military University since the Fall 2001 semester and currently teaches American, Civil War, and Military History. Additionally, he has a Masters of Arts degree in Military History from the University of Alabama in 1991 and a Master of Arts degree in International Politics and Business from Webster University in 1985. He served as the Commandant of Cadets at Howe Military School and Wentworth Military Academy and Junior College for two years and was the History Department Chairman at St. Andrews-on-the-Marsh School for four years. Professor Bacon was the Assistant Dean of Students and Associate Professor of History and Political Science at Georgia Military Academy for two years. He is now a RE-retired United States Air Force officer with twenty-five years of service. He just finished teaching 4 years of Military History at the Air Force Academy. Effective July of 2004, he was promoted to the academic rank of Assistant Professor at the Air Force Academy. He began his military career by attending Chamberlain-Hunt Military Academy while in high school. He joined the Army in 1968 and became an expert in missile electronics and spent three years in charge of two Nike-Hercules missile compounds. After his tour with the Army, Major Bacon completed his undergraduate degree in geological engineering at the University of Southwestern Louisiana. During these 2 years at USL, he completed a 4-year ROTC program with the Air Force and was commissioned a 2nd Lt as a distinguished graduate in 1973. He completed navigator training and electronic warfare training at Mather AFB, California and was assigned to the 8th special operations squadron at Hurlburt Field, Florida in 1976. Two years later, he was assigned to the 7th special operations squadron at Rhein-Main air base, Germany. He served at HQ Rescue, 23rd Air Force, and Military Airlift Command. His last assignment before retirement was as a squadron commander at Squadron Officer School/Air University. After retirement, Major Bacon taught at Georgia Military College and Effingham County High School (Georgia)(AFJROTC). He later became the History Department Chair at St. Andrew's-on-the-Marsh School in Savannah. He was "Teacher of the Year" twice and SC state Teacher of the Year finalist. He has been the Commandant at Wentworth Military Academy and Junor College and at Howe Military School. After 9/11, he volunteered to return to active duty and was "hand selected" to teach Military History at the Air Force Academy. Professor Bacon is now Re-retired from the Air Force and is teaching from his home in Sun City Hilton Head, SC. He is a Civil War Re-enactor and the Co-Chair of the Low Country Civil War Rountable. He is also a member of the American MENSA. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Here is a news story I found real fast off of Google: http://www.islandpacket.com/news/local/story/1012260.html Popular professor to present history of Port Royal By JULIAN VACHON Published Sunday, October 25, 2009 Comments (0) | Recommend (0) Email Article | Print Article | RSS Feeds | Bookmark and Share | Search the Archive Professor Stephen Bacon strives to make history come alive in the classroom, whether that means wearing costumes, acting out gruesome battles or telling stories not found in textbooks. The same will hold true Nov. 6, when Bacon plans to don Civil War-era attire and lecture on the history of Port Royal as part of a fundraiser for the Historic Port Royal Foundation. “Port Royal was one of the founding stepping stones of the entire region. It was the anchor, if nothing else, between Savannah and Charleston,” Bacon said. “I have some good stories, but I’m not going to let my secrets out yet.” Bacon, of Sun City Hilton Head, has taught for more than 22 years and offers courses at the University of South Carolina Beaufort and the Technical College of the Lowcountry. A veteran of the U.S. Air Force, Bacon also taught in the Air Force and considers military history his specialty. Historic Port Royal Foundation member John Ellerbe said he has taken classes at USCB’s Osher Lifelong Learning Institute and has seen Bacon at work in the classroom. The last lecture Ellerbe caught focused on the Revolutionary War in the Lowcountry. “He had a packed house, and everybody was hanging on every word,” Ellerbe said. “It’s exciting to have someone of Professor Bacon’s caliber speaking at our event.” Bacon said he will give a general history of Port Royal, beginning when the area was first colonized and touching on the Revolutionary War and then the Civil War. Along the way he’ll also talk about neighboring Beaufort and Parris Island, he said. “I try and get the audience into it by telling them bits of history they don’t know,” Bacon said. “I’m a storyteller, bottom line.” IF YOU GO What: Speech by professor Stephen Bacon, “History of Port Royal: Where it all Began” When: 6:30 p.m. Nov. 6 Where: Union Church, 1004 11th St., Port Royal Tickets: $10, can be purchased at Port Royal Town Hall, Union Church or by calling John Ellerbe at xxx-xxx-xxxx

[Danae]

His name is Stephan B. Bacon. AMU is FANTASTIC. It isn’t easy either. You will spend more time and effort learning and researching and writing then you ever did at a walk in university! That staff is TOP NOTCH, the administrators are outstanding and very very helpful. The Financial aid department is awesome and they have a great system that does not make you lose you mind when filing for Fin Aid. All in all, I feel that I am getting an excellent education from peoplein the field who do or have done the jobs they are teaching. I am a Jr. in Emergency and Disaster Mgnt. and am going back and forth between getting a certificate in Homeland Security or in intelligence.

I very highly recommend American Military University. Very highly!

[Danae]

I have asked him a few questions, but he has not gotten back to me as of yet. This all just happened this AM, so I need to wait a bit before bugging him more about it. If you see my long post further up, he is the real deal, and there is a DAMN good reason I angled for his class for 6 months!

I asked him the same question you asked me... lol I will post his response when I get it.

WOW. I am even more proud of getting an A in HIS class than just about anything I have ever done short of having my kids. WOW.

[Danae]

I will ask him that!

[DieHard the Hunter]

> He is a seriously credentialed Air Force Vet and Professor. This is his Bio at AMU (He has about 5 BILLION tons more credibility than I do.)

He sounds very impressive indeed. Don’t sell yourself short, tho’ — you have plenty of Credibility in your own right.

[Danae]

That drills down to a lack of inter-operational training between services. That very issue was one of the “Lessons” learned by the military out of that whole event. It actually changed how the military operated, though not enough as was demonstrated in Grenada a few years later.... sigh

[ansel12]

As for original Navy pilots?? Where did that come from? NO ONE wanted Navy to be the only pilots,

I don't know where you get this stuff.

Because the RH-53s were Navy aircraft, the Pentagon assigned Navy pilots to fly them and added Marine copilots to provide experience with land assault missions. That combination soon proved unworkable, as many of the Navy's pilots were unable or unwilling to master the unfamiliar and difficult tasks of long-range, low-level flying over land, at night, using primitive night vision goggles.
In December, most of the Navy pilots were replaced by Marines carefully selected for their experience in night and low-level flying. The mission ultimately had 16 pilots: 12 Marine, three Navy, and one Air Force.

[Danae]

Oh no no no, not like Bacon does. Not even close. If this were Baseball I would be playing Badminton. Seriously... Compared to what this man has done and accomplished... Yea... I am nothin!

I had a lot of respect for him going in, he has an astounding resume. But knowing this too.... crap I am scared crapless about my final research paper now! I better be freakin DAMN good! WOW. I am really just floored, I am in a class being taught by a walking talking piece of American History, and a brilliant man to boot. (((((())))))))HUMBLED I am!!!!((((((())))))

[ansel12]

True, one way of phrasing it would be that it was learned that complex, international special operations need many elements to avoid weak links, today, special operations ground elements have better trained personal to deliver and support them.

[ansel12]

True, one way of phrasing it would be that it was learned that complex, international special operations need many elements to avoid weak links, today, special operations ground elements have better trained personnel to deliver and support them.

[Danae]

Yep, and all those elements need to be able to communicate flawlessly, effectively. They also need to train together for extended periods, and in their individual training need to be set up so that working seamlessly with other branches is as easy as possible and as devastating to what ever enemy they are directed at.

Wars and battles up to that point were fought by BIG armies. With massive firepower, a bludgeon compared to a scalpel. What they were trying to do was a Scalpel type operation with a bludgeon, and it didn’t work. In my mind, the operation was set up to fail because of that.

If they had succeeded though... what a HUGE triumph.... but at the same time, might have meant that nothing changed within the military and hence they would have been less effective at some future time when that scalpel was needed again. Afghanistan in the opening days of the War there is a Beautiful example of flawless execution, the tip of the scalpel... CIA, Marines, Airforce, Special Ops... it all worked beautifully..... It is too bad that success was not built upon.

[DieHard the Hunter]

Danae, life has made me a cynic and a skeptic I guess. I’ve found it is always best to be Respectful to everybody but not to be overly impressed by anybody, and to believe about half of what I’m told and to verify the other half carefully.

That’s just me.

I think you’re going to do just fine with your final research paper. Good luck!

[Armedanddangerous]

He must have been one of the first Delta Force guys.

[Danae]

Thank you! That means a lot to me coming from you! It really does. I am nervy now because I chose a topic that wasn’t on his suggested list.... President Chester Arthur. Which means I will be kinda poking my head out of the hole to get whack-a-moled if I suck at it LOL

Arthur was Not a Natural Born Citizen either, Like Obama, his Dad was not an American, he was Canadian at best, most likely Irish if not Canadian, though he and Arthur’s mom lived in Canada for 14 years.... Anyway, thats why I chose Arthur....

So... yea, I have most of my sources down already... but I think I am gonna get into the meat of this research paper now, long before its due!

[ansel12]

Wars and battles up to that point were fought by BIG armies. With massive firepower, a bludgeon compared to a scalpel. What they were trying to do was a Scalpel type operation with a bludgeon, and it didn’t work.

I can't say that I understood you on that, or what the bludgeon was, only a small number of army personnel were to perform the actual snatch, which would have been the greatest raid in history. It was only nine years earlier that the army had performed the incredible Son Tay raid.