Posted on 10/26/2009 11:01:33 PM PDT by Steelfish
Is This Haunting Picture Proof That Chimps Really DO Grieve?
MICHAEL HANLON 27th October 2009
[Pic in URL] United in what appears to be deep and profound grief, a phalanx of more than a dozen chimpanzees stood in silence watching from behind the wire of their enclosure as the body of one of their own was wheeled past.
This extraordinary scene took place recently at the Sanaga-Yong Chimpanzee Rescue Center in Cameroon, West Africa.
When a chimp called Dorothy, who was in her late 40s, died of heart failure, her fellow apes seemed to be stricken by sorrow.
Enlarge Chimpanzees appear to console one another as Dorothy is carried to her final resting place in a wheelbarrow
As they wrapped their arms around each other in a gesture of solidarity, Dorothy's female keeper gently settled her into the wheelbarrow which carried her to her final resting place - not before giving this much-loved inhabitant of the centre a final affectionate stroke on the forehead.
Locals from the village serve as 'care-givers' to the chimps - something hugely needed by the animals who are all orphans as their mothers were killed for the illegal bushmeat trade.
Hunters captured them as young babies, often still clinging to their mother's bodies, to sell as pets.
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
it does look a bit odd. don’t know about grief but they seem to be aware that something is happening to one of their own.
Let’s see, stages of grief:
Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance
Can chimps “feel” those things?
Why not? Animals are so much smarter than we think. I swear my dogs know when I’m sad. My malti-poo is not a very loving dog. She’s smart, but she’s bit of a loner. In the ten years I’ve had her, I’ve been truly, truly sad to the point of crying maybe three times. Each of those times that dog came over and licked my face and curled up next to me. She NEVER does that. Ever. They know.
On another note, I thought that was a scene I remember from Planet of the Apes.
My sis’ pug has seizures if she’s been really having a bout of stress and health issues. Seriously. He just picks up on when ‘mom’ is not well and it effects him too.
Ugh. I tried to read Next Of Kin, but it was sooo sad that it nearly broke my heart.
Chimps did amazing things with sign language.
My dog has feelings too. I didn’t mean to say the chimps weren’t feeling something, only that didn’t see it in the picture. it was an intriguing picture tho.
Those "scientists" need to get out and actually meet an animal sometime. The author might consider dropping the arrogance of assigning emotions exclusively to humans too. Neither POV is anywhere near the universe of reality.
I got ya. I’ve seen pets do that too. I try to keep in mind though that humans sometimes perceive the actions of animals to serve our best interests in the name of companionship and love.
that’s nonsense made up by a left wing woman doctor. It’s not fact.
stages of grief:
Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance
anyone who doesn’t see grief in this photo is blind.
You’re right. And we do the same thing with Muslims. Rush once did a brilliant monologue about this phenomenon.
well my eyesight isn't as good as it once was, but that was a very rude response. No need to get offensive.
Perhaps the stages of human grief are different than those of other animals?
I didn’t think it was rude.
Ah yes... Muslims aren't human and they don't grieve. /sarcasm
Sheesh!
They are definently expressing tenderness with each other as they look at the dead chimp. It should not be compared to human grief because we are a tad more complex than chimps. But that does not take away from the sweet tenderness in the social expression of these chimps.
That “stages of grief” thing is asinine.
Seriously...what if someone dies of a heart attack or in a car accident? Pretty much negates the denial stage since the next stop is the funeral home.
Who are you bargaining with, at that point?
Or are you going to insinuate that we instantly go through the first three stages when faced with a sudden loss? That negates your silly point that animals do not do the same thing.
The stages of grief are talking points for hospice...and total psychobabble.
I think these stages of grief are not true for all humans, and in all circumstances, but they are observed in many when they lose one they love deeply.
Right. When a household member died last month, I didn’t go thru any of that.
I went straight to feeling like a piece of crap. No denial, no anger, no bargaining.
Joya ping
Thank you.
Probably thought it was dinner time. They do eat their own.
Probably thought it was dinner time. They do eat their own.
DaDa!!!! winner !!!!
No disrespect for the Chimps but, it looks to me/ where are they taking her, can go to?
I agree we should not compare animals to humans.
???
So what do they feel when they kill and cannibalize other chimps?
I think what he means, and I’m going to use it as a jumping off spot to my point, is that we all too frequently assume that others have the same motivations we do, when this is not true.
It’s true with different cultures and it’s true with animals. For example, polar bears, with all their fur, tend to look all teddy bear and cute, but they’re very fierce and aggressive predators. It’s common for people to mistake polar bear aggression for curiosity until the claws and the teeth come out.
With human cultures, for example, most of us here on FR view children as precious humans to be protected. In some other cultures, children are viewed as being smaller, easier to beat up, and easier to turn into slaves.
Animals and humans both have complex emotions, but it’s very dangerous to assume these emotions and motivations are the same throughout all cultures and species, although there are commonalities (self-survival, sex drive) among most.
This picture is kind of a mirror. The emotion of the chimps is impossible to truly read, and that’s what makes the picture intriguing. If there was a stalk of bananas in the foreground instead of the dead chimp, we’d read it differently.
What people pick up from this picture says more about them than it does what the chimps were feeling/thinking.
Perhaps the feeling is similar to that humans have when they kill other humans.
They look sad to me. I think animals know about death. When Lilac the old cat was dying my dogs would go to where she was laying & check on her. When we took her to get the shot & she didn’t come back for days they went to her bed & looked for her. I still look around & wonder where she is.
The chimp in that story was more heavily medicated than an over the hill Hollywood actress.
I take no general rules about chimps away from that story.
On what do you base the claim that Elisabeth Kubler-Ross was a left winger?
How much “grief” does a chimp feel when it’s ripping your hands, nuts and face off?
Of course those stages are not fact, they are descriptive of what some folks have reported to researchers.
When my dad had a heart attack and passed away last year, when I heard my sister say ‘I think he’s already gone’, I instead interpreted as ‘they took him away in the ambulance’, read: denial. He was dead before he hit the floor.
My mother is bipolar, and it was never our plan (sis and bro and I) that dad would die first, and I was a little pissed, read: anger.
I cannot see how I went through bargaining ... but likely because it was so sudden. Had he been tied to a hospital bed for month after month, maybe I would have. don’t know.
Of course I have been depressed about it, and have had to accept the pretty extreme changes to my life (taking care of mom).
It’s not rocket science, folks, just a different way of looking at things, which may, for some, provide a means of dealing with the grief a bit more constructively.
I’m sure we’ve all known that one person who, when faced with grief, becomes a basket case for months.
Is this a picture of a victim of the violence and savagery at one of those Obama cash give-aways in Detroit? Lol!
“I believe the common character of the universe is not harmony, but chaos, hostility, and murder.” -Werner Herzog
Grief over loss is real, but the steps do not necessarily happened in order.. People can go back and forth between each so called stage.
DANRA:
Denial: can’t believe it happened or will happen
Anger; angry that it happened or will happen
Negotiation: negotiation with God over loss that will occur, please don’t let this happen..etc
Resignation: resigning oneself to the fact that loss will occur or did occur—overcoming denial
Acceptance: obvious—accepting the upcoming loss, or actual loss.
If sadness and/or depression isn’t felt over a loved one, I guess that would mean there was no attachment whatsoever eh?
It’s not pyschobabble, talk to funeral directors, people who deal with wills, trusts and probate, pastors, friends etc. Mourning loss does have stages, and lebeling them doesn’t negate their existance.
Oops, I thought you guys were referring to human grief.
I saw a documentary once where a wild chimp carried her dead baby chimp around with her for a few days before behaving as though she shew it was dead.
Denial then acceptance? Don’t have a clue. They’re not humans..but her cries of anguish seemed real.
she shew it was dead.
Meant she KNEW it was dead. (Sigh)
With all respect due, you don’t make a lot of sense!
How much “grief” does a human feel when he/she is viciously murdering another human?
A couple of years ago Rush did a monologue where he started out talking about how people subscribe human qualities to their pets because it makes them feel better about themselves...but the bottom line is that all animals really want from you is to be fed. Or something like that. He said it’s because we are kind people. He then went on to state that’s how people are dealing with the Muslim problem. They don’t want to believe that there are really humans out there who really hate so much that they do what they do. They want to believe deep down inside that they can be changed. That they are, basically, HUMAN BEINGS. But we know that’s not the case. We cannot change their hearts and minds...we can’t.
Of course, Rush said it a hell of a lot better than I just did!
We had 2 Rhodesian Ridgebacks and even though we had no fence the dogs never left the yard. Our son was killed in a car wreck and after that the dogs changed. They might not have missed him because they were my dogs but they knew something was wrong with me. They became very protective of me and the house and the yard.
Their territory increased to include half of the neighbors yard and into the middle of the street. I finally came out of my stupor to realize something was going on with them when the mailman refused to deliver our mail because the dogs would not let him get near the mailbox.
The end of the story was that we got a fence.
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