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Adams papers, Lee family papers to prove NBC in Constitution came from Vattel?
Examiner.com (comments) ^
| 10/15/2009
| rxsid
Posted on 10/15/2009 2:58:49 PM PDT by rxsid
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To: stockpirate
I think the AFTER-birthers are in for a very bad next few weeks. You keep telling yourself that.
To: Non-Sequitur
If this guy has Adam’s once private papers that elucidates the NBC and the Law of Nations clauses as he says, your guy Obama is in big trouble...which he states below.
“John says: The Adams papers I am in possession of plainly state they looked to “Vattel’s Law of Nations” for guidance in determining who might be qualified as a “natural born Citizen”.”
To: Non-Sequitur
Ahh Non-sequitur - the tr**l who cannot answer basic legal questions.
43
posted on
10/15/2009 8:10:58 PM PDT
by
Frantzie
(Do we want ACORN running America's health care?)
To: Non-Sequitur
And in any case, John Adams played no part in the creation of the Constitution.
Oh really???
John Adams was a signer of the Declaration of Independence and member of the first and second Continental Congress. Adams was also in regular communication with James Madison (yes indeed, the "Father of the Constitution") during the Constitutional Convention period.
Adams did not attend the Constitutional Convention because he was overseas at the time serving as ambassador to Great Britain. He wrote
Defence of the Constitutions of the United States published in 1787 (yes, same year as the Constitution) so to state that he had nothing to do with the Constitution is ludicrous. There were no 747's back then so travel across the Atlantic wasn't as quick as easy as it is today, but you knew that already. Right?
We Birthers have come to accept the cold, hard fact that you "after-birther" trolls don't want to be confused with the truth...
44
posted on
10/15/2009 8:43:40 PM PDT
by
thecraw
(God allows evil...God allowed Hussein...Lord willing he'll give us Sarah to clean up the huge mess.)
To: thecraw; Non-Sequitur; Drew68
Great going Craw !
NS, Drew-Wrong-Conclusion,
YEAH ! SO THERE !
Troll-faces !
45
posted on
10/15/2009 9:05:08 PM PDT
by
rocco55
To: rxsid
My family also counts among our forebears King O'Leathlobhair (pronounced OWE LAL_OW_IR), who was ruler of all England in the third century A.D. The name O'Leathlobhair means "seeker of justice" and it is the original term from which the word "lawyer" was derived around the year 100 B.C. If this is true, why are they not in a museum, and why have I never read about them (not that I was shut out or anything, I'm just a big history fan and thought I might have run across a mention)
46
posted on
10/15/2009 9:09:52 PM PDT
by
CaptRon
To: Red Steel
If this guy John has the what he says he does, its goodbye Obama.The most oft-repeated phrase in birtherdom.
47
posted on
10/15/2009 9:29:18 PM PDT
by
Drew68
To: rxsid
Unless the Adams papers were written by Abigail, I doubt that Justice Sotomayor would be interested... And since Abigail isn't Hispanic, maybe she'll never be interested.
-PJ
48
posted on
10/15/2009 9:37:17 PM PDT
by
Political Junkie Too
(Comprehensive congressional reform legislation only yields incomprehensible bills that nobody reads.)
To: Political Junkie Too
Good point. Adam’s (et. al) were not “wise [female] latinas”
49
posted on
10/15/2009 11:36:14 PM PDT
by
rxsid
(HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
To: CaptRon
"why are they not in a museum"
They being what...the papers the guy (?) say's his family has (& the others)? Well, it's really not reasonable to think that the gov't or some museum has 100% of every single document written by the founders.
Have a look here for but one fairly recent example:
Letters of Delegates to Congress: Volume 25 March 1, 1788-December 31, 1789
Secret Committee Contract
"MS (Privately owned original, 1993). In the hand of Roger Sherman.
1 A copy of a 60-page notebook in the hand of Connecticut delegate Roger Sherman was made available for use in this supplement by Mr. Joseph Rubenfine of West Palm Beach, Fla. It contains 24 pages of notes on Sherman's readings from Emmerich Vattel and the Bishop of Bristol, various personal expense accounts from 1781 to 1784, and copies of reports now in the PCC on Continental expenses and indebtedness, battle casualties, and the hospital establishment as of July 23, 1781, of which only the present notes do not duplicate information available elsewhere."
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/hlaw:@field(DOCID+@lit(dg025422))So yes, there very well could be many documents that remain in private collections and therefore out of the public realm.
If the docs do exist, it would be fascinating to have them (or some portion at least) be made available to the public.
50
posted on
10/15/2009 11:47:15 PM PDT
by
rxsid
(HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
To: x
Adams read Vattel, but was in Europe when the Constitution was written. The founders also read Blackstone who took a different view of what a "natural born citizen" was. Blackstone wrote of Natural Born Subjects, not citizens, and wrote a lot about them, not just the raw definition. The whole notion, according to Blackstone, comes from the fealty owed to the feudal Lord.
No thanks.
51
posted on
10/16/2009 12:00:56 AM PDT
by
El Gato
("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
To: El Gato
"The whole notion, according to Blackstone, comes from the fealty owed to the feudal Lord. No thanks. "
No kidding! And, clearly, the founders thought enough the same to go so far as to wage war against those "ideals".
52
posted on
10/16/2009 12:18:59 AM PDT
by
rxsid
(HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
To: Red Steel
John says: The Adams papers I am in possession of plainly state they looked to Vattels Law of Nations for guidance in determining who might be qualified as a natural born Citizen. Would those be the papers of Bernie Adams, Ralph Adams, Chuck Adams, who?
Regardless they will make a good match with your affidavit on Eric Holder.
To: Frantzie
Ahh Non-sequitur - the tr**l who cannot answer basic legal questions. Ahh Frantzie - the Birther who cannot ask basic legal questions.
To: thecraw
We Birthers have come to accept the cold, hard fact that you "after-birther" trolls don't want to be confused with the truth... You Birthers jump all over myths and fairy tales that seem to support your tales, regardless of how outrageous they are. In fact, the more outrageous they are the better you like them.
To: Non-Sequitur
You Birthers jump all over myths and fairy tales that seem to support your tales, regardless of how outrageous they are. In fact, the more outrageous they are the better you like them.
Myths and fairy tales are what you specialize in. The facts I state about John Adams are easily verifiable.
Troll...
56
posted on
10/16/2009 4:39:21 AM PDT
by
thecraw
(God allows evil...God allowed Hussein...Lord willing he'll give us Sarah to clean up the huge mess.)
To: thecraw
The facts I state about John Adams are easily verifiable. It's the facts you ignore that are more telling. Fact: John Adams was not part of the Constitutional convention. Fact: John Adams wrote no known letters to any member of the convention discussing natural-born citizenship. Fact: Nothing in the Adams papers on file with the Massachusetts Historical Society show that Adams ever corresponded with any of the Founders on the definition of natural-born citizen. Fact: In his book you referenced, "Defense of the Constitutions of the United States", Adams doesn't mention Vattel once that I can find. Fact: The Adams Papers with the Massachusetts Historical Society contain over 27,000 separate items. The idea that there is an unknown cache of John Adams papers somewhere is ridiculous.
To: thecraw
To: thecraw
Adams was also in regular communication with James Madison (yes indeed, the "Father of the Constitution") during the Constitutional Convention period. And yet, amazingly enough, none of those letters made it into the collection of James Madison papers on file with the Library of Congress. Link
Nor do they seem to be with the Adams papers. Link
To: Non-Sequitur
Birther
A badge of honor...
60
posted on
10/16/2009 6:19:09 AM PDT
by
thecraw
(God allows evil...God allowed Hussein...Lord willing he'll give us Sarah to clean up the huge mess.)
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