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To: PzLdr

I think Subodai was a great general also, but why do you think Subodai was greater than Genghis?

Can the apprentice be greater than the master?


33 posted on 07/24/2006 12:56:12 PM PDT by ZULU (Non nobis, non nobis, Domine, sed nomini tuo da gloriam. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: ZULU
If you study Temujin's campaigns in North China, and during the period he unified the tribes before that, they're pretty straight up, strategically. True, he attacked the Jin by attacking from the West, after conquering Hsia Hsia, but he tended to keep the Army under his control.

With Khwaresm, all that changed. the Mongols attacked in multiple columns from several different directions; culminating in Chinnghis' column, with which Subodai rode as a sort of Chief of Staff, appearing in the rear of the entire Khwaresm Army. That plan had Subodai's fingerprints all over it.So does the pursuit of the Khwaresm Shah, and Mongol operations in the Caucasus and southern Kievan Russia culminating in the battle of the Khalka River in 1223. He may have learned some of that from Jebe Noyon, with whom he had been partnered since at least the Chin casmpaign, but none of it had appeared in Chinnghis' earlier campaigns.

Consider the final phase of the Mongol invasion of the West, which began in 1236, and ended with the withdrawal of 1242. Subodal attacked Eastern Europe with four columns on a front of at least five hundred [probably more] miles. Two had to cross the Carpathians in winter, attacking fortifications as they went. One column of two TUMENS attacked the entire area of Poland. The fourth stormed through the Balkans. Three of the four rendezvoused, as per the plan near Buda and Pest by the date specified. The fourth column was less than a week late. After a feigned retreat, the Mongols destroyed 70% of the Hungarian Army pursuing them [Mohi], using detached columns to do so. They had already destroyed the military capability of Poland, and forced Bohemia out of the fight. By the following Spring [1242], Subodai had taken Buda, Pest and the rest of Hungary, were raiding Vienna, and had a column working its way into northeastern Italy. Another column was pursuing Bela IV down the eastern coast of the Adriatic.I consider it history's greatest campaign.

Chinnghis Quan created the Army Subodai [and others] put to such good use. He organized it, equipped it, and gave it purpose. He used it to create the Mongol state. He was a good commander. But he was no Subodai.
34 posted on 07/24/2006 3:36:59 PM PDT by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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