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Hey, I carried a .38 for years, sometimes still do, and if you can really draw well and hit with it, that's the gun for you, I am sure. It has worked a lot of times, under dire circumstances, in the past. There are more effective choices to be had, but as they say, "beware the man with only one gun. He may just know how to use it." I am acquainted with several proven to be rather lethal professionals, and they sometimes carry .38s too, casually. Revolvers work, and simply, and fast. They are also easier to get your fingers around during a sudden grasp. They are still a great mechanism, if properly loaded.

The discussion we had, link below, got me to cite the "heavy for caliber bullet" axiom, which I offer to you. It seems appropriate now, on a .45 ACP thread. Heavy, and slow. It works. I have no doubt of the effectiveness, for self defense and general farm/ranch utility, of a flat-nosed, 158 or preferrably heavier bullet, at reasonable speed. Unfortunately, loads with bullets @ 170 grains are hard, if not impossible to find, and would extend the effectiveness of the .38 considerably. Martin Fackler even recommends Target Wadcutters in snubnosed .38s, because of the wide frontal area, and deep penetration caused by slower speeds not causing a mushroom, which tends to decrease penetration because of the overly wide frontal area being harder to drive deeply into vital structures. The .45 ACP is known to be so effective because of its heavy, wide bullet, traveling slow enough to deeply penetrate, not overly expanding its hollow point, which most professional users I have noticed do not even choose, since "Ball works fine," and is more functionally reliable. It isn't a hand-rifle, but up close, it's a cannon.

Post # 84:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1537928/posts

May your "carry for years and never have to use" prediction come true.

All I can contribute is "Be Prepared."

These are Dr. Fackler's suggestions for various SPEER-loaded cartridges, in various defensive handguns [if you notice the last few sentences, he indicates that the heavier 147gr. 9mm bullets penetrate effectively, but for lighter weight projectiles (124gr.), Plus Power high velocity must be used, to drive the expanded head in deep enough to cause more likelihood of a stop. The .38 target wadcutter advice drives people crazy too, because they just cannot accept the counterintuitive results which repeated tests have clearly shown.]....:

"2-inch .38 snubs
There seems to be no JHP bullet cartridge that is capable of providing a reasonable balance of adequate penetration and reliable expansion. A bullet that expands will not penetrate deeply enough, whereas a bullet that does not expand will probably overpenetrate.

As a result, we feel the best cartridge for .38 snubbies is the 148 grain wadcutter target load. (MacPherson, Duncan: Bullet Penetration, Ballistic Publications, El Segundo, California, 1994. p. 247, Figure 10-2 Cylinder Bullet Penetration Depth.) The sharp-edged shoulder of the full wadcutter design provides the best penetration and wounding efficiency for this gun/cartridge combination.

Speer offers a total metal jacket (FMJ) 148 grain wadcutter in its Lawman line of ammunition. As opposed to a lead wadcutter, the shoulder of the Speer copper-jacketed bullet is more likely to retain its sharp shoulder on impact. The downside of the Speer bullet is the less sensitive "Cleanfire primer" which may not provide reliable cartridge ignition in guns that have had trigger work, a lighter mainspring installed, or bobbed hammer.

.25 ACP
The Gold Dot design expands quite consistently, but the bullets penetrate between 7 - 8 inches. This is inadequate penetration. This is not a condemnation of the Gold Dot bullet, all expanding .25 ACP bullets exhibit inadequate penetration.

We recommend a 50 grain full metal jacket bullet. Although the aerodynamic design of the semi-pointed FMJ bullet does not wound as efficiently as an expanding bullet, an FMJ bullet will at least penetrate deeply enough to reliably reach, and crush a hole in, vital tissues from any shooting engagement angle.

.32 ACP
All expanding JHP bullets in this caliber demonstrate inadequate penetration performance. Test results for the Gold Dot JHP substantiate our claim that the 71 grain FMJ bullet is the best choice for personal defense.

We feel a truncated cone-shaped FMJ bullet would provide the best combination of adequate penetration and wounding efficiency for both .32 ACP and .25 ACP. The truncated cone-shape is more efficient in crushing a larger diameter permanent cavity than a semi-pointed round nose-shape. Sadly FMJ-TC bullets are not available in these two calibers.

An informal test of a modified .32 ACP 60 grain Gold Dot JHP demonstrated ideal penetration results in ordnance gelatin. The bullet was modified to inhibit expansion by plugging the hollow cavity, effectively turning the bullet into an FMJ-TC.

9mm compact handguns
The 147 grain Gold Dot demonstrated very good expansion, and we were impressed with its expanded diameter after passing though four layers of 16 ounce denim. We suspect the reason why the 147 grain Gold Dot expanded so well after penetrating the denim cloth is because it has a deeper hollow cavity than the 124 grain +P bullet. Unfortunately when testing the 147 grain cartridge we didn't record the penetration depth of the calibration BB in our notes. Regretfully, we are unable to provide anything other than an approximate penetration depth. But the expansion results can be considered valid.

For those of you who just cannot bring yourself to use a 147 grain bullet, the 124 grain +P Gold Dot would also be a good choice for personal defense. However this particular cartridge is difficult to locate. It is packaged in 50 round boxes for law enforcement sales, but it is not restricted by Speer. If you don't want to go through all the trouble to obtain Speer's 124 grain +P Gold Dot, another good choice for compact 9mm handguns is Remington's 124 grain Golden Saber +P.

We also tested Federal’s new 9mm 135 grain Personal Defense HydraShok JHP cartridge. In bare gelatin this bullet demonstrated inadequate penetration performance when fired out of a compact handgun. In denim covered gelatin we obtained one good hit out of three test shots, and this doesn’t provide enough data for a valid determination of its performance. But given its inadequate performance in bare gelatin, we decided against any further testing.

We’ve contacted Federal several times in attempt to obtain gelatin performance data for their Personal Defense line of ammunition (both handgun and shotgun). Federal has stonewalled us during our attempts to obtain this information via telephone request, and they have not responded to our written requests. As a result, we advise you to steer clear of Federal’s Personal Defense ammunition until there is valid performance data from a reputable source.

We have no qualms about offering the following general personal defense recommendations for Speer’s Gold Dot handgun ammunition:

9mm
If your handgun has a barrel length of 4 inches or longer, consider either the standard 124 grain Gold Dot JHP or the 147 grain Gold Dot JHP.

If your handgun has a barrel length less than 4 inches, consider the 147 grain Gold Dot JHP or the 124 grain +P JHP"

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs9.htm