Posted on 12/16/2005 7:55:43 PM PST by fuente
The company was recently bought by CZ.
MY favorite 1911 is my 1999 vintage Kimber Classic Gold Match. It can be most accurately compared to a Colt Gold Cup, but is much better made, and head and shoulders more accurate.
I have carried mine from time to time, but can no longer do so due to a serious back injury last January 2.
So know, I tote a Smith and Wesson Model 36 Chief's special.
My Kimber, however, is on duty as my main home defense handgun.
I saw a Remington 700 today at Dicks with checkered wood stock in .270 for $700 and felt a sudden surge of lust. Never owned a rifle before. Would this be a good starter?
Yes, they are excellent rifles although the Savage is cheaper and decent if you are on a budget. 270 is a very versatile cartridge. Very flat.
Also, I wouldn't buy from Dicks as they are anti-handgun. They recently bought a local Galyans and promptly tossed all the handguns. I make a point of sending them my multi-kilobuck receipts from Sportsman's Warehouse.
Depends. What will be it's main use? You a hunter? This caliber qualifies for fairly (soft skinned) large game: Deer maybe Elk. Kicks a bit. Most are bolt action and hold five or less rounds of ammo. It's not a "plinker." For a first rifle might I suggest a Ruger 10/22? SWEEEEEET .22LR semiauto. Extremely accurate and cheap to shoot. The .270 is going to run you some $$$ to feed it. If you want a little more power while still being very controllable, might I suggest a .223 (5.56mm) like a Ruger Mini-14 or an AR-15?
I bought an Auto Ord .45 ACP a few years ago. I had a huge problem with hitting the target. I thought was decent with shooting pistols. I could hit 4 out of 6 clay pigeons from 50 yards. With the .45 ACP I could barely hit the target at 10 yards. Of course it was the gun. I sent it to the shop for new sights, trigger and a bunch of other things ($850 upgrades on a $425 gun. It's a guy thing.) I still couldn't shoot it right. I took an NRA shooting class and the instructor pointed out several grip related problems I had. With in the 8 hour class I was able to put 7 rounds into a 3 x 5 card at 7 yards. I should have taken the course before the $850 upgrade.
That is why I am gravitating toward fixed sights - the adjustible sights probably correct for my deficiencies, when I should be correcting for my deficiencies.
the p220 is awesome, i have a rare one chambered in .38super.
iirc, kimber eclipse is what lapd swat carries. good gun.
but for spending that much on a 1911, you should also consider an STI or a sig gsr.
These are Dr. Fackler's suggestions for various SPEER-loaded cartridges, in various defensive handguns [if you notice the last few sentences, he indicates that the heavier 147gr. 9mm bullets penetrate effectively, but for lighter weight projectiles (124gr.), Plus Power high velocity must be used, to drive the expanded head in deep enough to cause more likelihood of a stop. The .38 target wadcutter advice drives people crazy too, because they just cannot accept the counterintuitive results which repeated tests have clearly shown.]....:
"2-inch .38 snubs
There seems to be no JHP bullet cartridge that is capable of providing a reasonable balance of adequate penetration and reliable expansion. A bullet that expands will not penetrate deeply enough, whereas a bullet that does not expand will probably overpenetrate.
As a result, we feel the best cartridge for .38 snubbies is the 148 grain wadcutter target load. (MacPherson, Duncan: Bullet Penetration, Ballistic Publications, El Segundo, California, 1994. p. 247, Figure 10-2 Cylinder Bullet Penetration Depth.) The sharp-edged shoulder of the full wadcutter design provides the best penetration and wounding efficiency for this gun/cartridge combination.
Speer offers a total metal jacket (FMJ) 148 grain wadcutter in its Lawman line of ammunition. As opposed to a lead wadcutter, the shoulder of the Speer copper-jacketed bullet is more likely to retain its sharp shoulder on impact. The downside of the Speer bullet is the less sensitive "Cleanfire primer" which may not provide reliable cartridge ignition in guns that have had trigger work, a lighter mainspring installed, or bobbed hammer.
.25 ACP
The Gold Dot design expands quite consistently, but the bullets penetrate between 7 - 8 inches. This is inadequate penetration. This is not a condemnation of the Gold Dot bullet, all expanding .25 ACP bullets exhibit inadequate penetration.
We recommend a 50 grain full metal jacket bullet. Although the aerodynamic design of the semi-pointed FMJ bullet does not wound as efficiently as an expanding bullet, an FMJ bullet will at least penetrate deeply enough to reliably reach, and crush a hole in, vital tissues from any shooting engagement angle.
.32 ACP
All expanding JHP bullets in this caliber demonstrate inadequate penetration performance. Test results for the Gold Dot JHP substantiate our claim that the 71 grain FMJ bullet is the best choice for personal defense.
We feel a truncated cone-shaped FMJ bullet would provide the best combination of adequate penetration and wounding efficiency for both .32 ACP and .25 ACP. The truncated cone-shape is more efficient in crushing a larger diameter permanent cavity than a semi-pointed round nose-shape. Sadly FMJ-TC bullets are not available in these two calibers.
An informal test of a modified .32 ACP 60 grain Gold Dot JHP demonstrated ideal penetration results in ordnance gelatin. The bullet was modified to inhibit expansion by plugging the hollow cavity, effectively turning the bullet into an FMJ-TC.
9mm compact handguns
The 147 grain Gold Dot demonstrated very good expansion, and we were impressed with its expanded diameter after passing though four layers of 16 ounce denim. We suspect the reason why the 147 grain Gold Dot expanded so well after penetrating the denim cloth is because it has a deeper hollow cavity than the 124 grain +P bullet. Unfortunately when testing the 147 grain cartridge we didn't record the penetration depth of the calibration BB in our notes. Regretfully, we are unable to provide anything other than an approximate penetration depth. But the expansion results can be considered valid.
For those of you who just cannot bring yourself to use a 147 grain bullet, the 124 grain +P Gold Dot would also be a good choice for personal defense. However this particular cartridge is difficult to locate. It is packaged in 50 round boxes for law enforcement sales, but it is not restricted by Speer. If you don't want to go through all the trouble to obtain Speer's 124 grain +P Gold Dot, another good choice for compact 9mm handguns is Remington's 124 grain Golden Saber +P.
We also tested Federal’s new 9mm 135 grain Personal Defense HydraShok JHP cartridge. In bare gelatin this bullet demonstrated inadequate penetration performance when fired out of a compact handgun. In denim covered gelatin we obtained one good hit out of three test shots, and this doesn’t provide enough data for a valid determination of its performance. But given its inadequate performance in bare gelatin, we decided against any further testing.
We’ve contacted Federal several times in attempt to obtain gelatin performance data for their Personal Defense line of ammunition (both handgun and shotgun). Federal has stonewalled us during our attempts to obtain this information via telephone request, and they have not responded to our written requests. As a result, we advise you to steer clear of Federal’s Personal Defense ammunition until there is valid performance data from a reputable source.
We have no qualms about offering the following general personal defense recommendations for Speer’s Gold Dot handgun ammunition:
9mm
If your handgun has a barrel length of 4 inches or longer, consider either the standard 124 grain Gold Dot JHP or the 147 grain Gold Dot JHP.
If your handgun has a barrel length less than 4 inches, consider the 147 grain Gold Dot JHP or the 124 grain +P JHP"
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs9.htm
Good info, thanks.
For my 38 snub I use the old Federal FiBi load, 158gr Lead hollowpoint, semi wadcutter which I believe is a discontiuned product from federal.....I have a few cases of such left for my small .38's....
For the 9mm ya already know my choice of 147gr subsonic OSM....
My 44 special over the counter is the 200gr Gold Dot Hollowpoint from CCI/Blazer for my S&W696, my Bulldog and the 329PD when CHL duty applies. Albeit I have been playing with the 44 special frangable load from www.rbcd.com that has some horrific wound history on my local coyote population. It is a popular canidate for use in my 44's across the board.....evaluation still in progress per se.....:o)
My 45 autos are all fed 230gr hydrashok from federal.....
My only .32's owned are the Seecamps and they are fed a lone diet of 60gr Silvertips as that is the only reliable round that Larry Seecamp recomends so I stay with it. I have tried other types of whizbang ammo for it yet it burps so silvertip 60gr is where I stand for that little hideout pocket gun.....
I am probably the only person that packs a small S&W 317 snub .22 revolver as a ankle rig backup. I have a uncle mikes nylon holster for that ultra light rig that a parachute rigger modified for me to hold 3 spare bianchi speed strips when I carried a .38 snub in it. That little pocket also holds one of the small 50 round boxes of .22 rounds. I use a Paco Kelly tool to modify the rounds and thus I keep 58 rounds of .22 in that ultralight weight snub package that is a very acurate right eye, left eye kneecapper per se.....
Good info Dr Muttly !!
Gee, I like the .22. Lots of using potential with it, especially if one happens to be wearing it when an "extended survival" adventure erupts, may it not. It's a cheap rabbit-getter, rat knocker-offer, dog discourager..and doesn't use up your serious defense supplies....which it could also fill in for, especially with improved noses, with the Paco gizmos. I have a box of CCI CB-Shorts which sound like a pellet gun being fired, just about. Would be great with the Paco Kelly hollow point modification, since velocity is so low, and he says it's almost explosive, perhaps because of air being trapped in the bowl-like nose. There is a VELOCITOR .22, with heavier bullets, probably a good thing in a short revolver, and of course, CCI STINGERS are the top, top choice, and revolvers use them well, but automatics, even rifles, often do not. I have a rifle which refuses, and I would send it on to other climes were it not for its proven accuracy with everything else.
I always use WINCHESTER .38 158gr. +P hollow point LEAD. It is said that the Win. lead is softer than Federal's, but I am unsure which is really better in defensive use. Every cop I ever compared .38 ammo with swore and insisted upon this load, from either manufacturer, usually Winchester. The only one who didn't carry it....and it is the old Illinois State Police load, then I think it was adopted by the FBI....was a 17 year vet (17 righteous kills too, and one dog "that was only doing his job") of an urban Stakeout team, who had a square-butt Chief in his trouser pocket, loaded with Silvertips. He cautioned me against using Glasers, which I was, partially, with "what if you blow his hand off, and he kills you anyway?!" Like you Squantos, whatever he was required to carry on the job, was backed up by his personal .45, under his shirt.
They're part of Dr. Muttly Fackler's museum collection now.
Col. Townsend Muttly scowls when he passes them by.
Perhaps the best JACKETED .38 are the old "Tulip Jacket" Remingtons. The jacket mouths were scalloped, like flower petals, and JHP. Even in standard velocity, the 158s had a good record of reasonable stops. I used to carry NYCLAD +P too, even in 9mm, but they discontinued it!!!
Benedict Muttlys! Outrageous.
....Supreme OSM....."ommmmmm"................
I'm all right now. Just needed to collect myself.
Meditation is a beautiful thing.
Cool.....:o)
I like the little airweight SW317 flavors as the revolver will feed "all or any" of the CB, shorts, long rifle and possible even some of the .17's ?? (experiment on the horizon)
My favorite .22 autos are fed a diet of just the ammo they like to function vs the trash diet a wheelgun will spew on demand. 8 shots from a Ruger Mk-1 or from a S&W 317.....all works fine from the smaller ankle rig concept for me .,...
Stay safe Doc !
I'd do well to just carry one gun caliber, but I'm a gun whore like squantos. In .45 ACP I use primarily 230 gr HydraShok and 200 gr Fed EFMJ when I can obtain them. I have a Kimber Custom Target that has not had anything done to it since I got it some years back, very accurate and very satisfying, also have numerous Colts, Witness, Sig 220.
In .44 Special, the professor and I have the same tastes CCI 200 gr JHP goes into the S&W396, as well as, the Model 624.
For the HiPower in 9mm it Federal 124 gr EFMJ(hard to get).
For the PPK or NAA .380 Guardian its pure Cor-Bon.
For the Glock 23 I still use some hot Fiochi 180 gr they put out a few years back.
Ya know whatcha get when you drag a Colt through a trailer park. :)
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