Posted on 03/05/2022 10:18:32 AM PST by wardaddy
What?
The question is not simply who was killed, whether civilian or military (or paramilitary), but who was doing the killing. Your statement directly implied that of the 14,000 all the killing was done by the Ukrainians. That I doubt.
Let’s say that 14000 could have been alive if they wouldn’t start the war.
Putin has killed more Russian speakers than any Kremlin leader since Stalin. And Putinists couldn’t care less.
OK, I see what’s going on. So, that’s the end of this conversation. Your loyalty is clearly to Putin, who in your judgment has done no wrong whatever ... and probably cannot do wrong. It is pointless to argue with someone so invincibly set in the concrete of his own perspective, and his own alone. So, bye.
LOL. Your partisan approach is laughable. Guess you supported Clinton’s Yugoslav adventure and Iraq II.
Both Putin and Zelenskiy will go before the tribunal of both history and justice for what they have done, not what some say this or that one did.
History suggests this will not happen to a head of state. Notably, the United States does not even recognize the International Criminal Court (ICC). The ICC can only assume jusridiction in cases referred to it by the UN Security Council. Essentially, all members of UN Security Council with veto power are exempt, except with their consent. Russia is also not a party to the Rome Statute which created the ICC. Not Ukraine either. Rome Statute parties
https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/03/15/us-threatens-international-criminal-court#
March 15, 2019 12:58PM EDT (underscore added)
US Threatens International Criminal CourtVisa Bans on ICC Staff
(Washington, DC) – The United States decision to impose visa bans on International Criminal Court (ICC) staff will imperil accountability for grave international crimes, Human Rights Watch said today. US Secretary of State Michael Pompeo on March 15, 2019 announced that the bans will apply to ICC personnel involved in the court’s potential investigation of US citizens and may possibly be used to deter ICC investigations against citizens of US allies.
[...]
Pompeo made clear that the US would take further action if the ICC moves forward with investigations of US nationals. In a September 2018 speech, the US national security adviser, John Bolton, announced a change in US policy toward the court and outlined several steps the US would take if ICC investigations reached US nationals or the nationals of US allies. In addition to travel bans, Bolton threatened prosecutions and financial sanctions against ICC staff, as well as against countries and companies assisting in ICC investigations of US nationals. He warned that the US would restart long-abandoned efforts to negotiate agreements with other countries against surrendering US nationals to the court and put other governments’ diplomatic, military, and intelligence ties with the US at risk if those governments cooperate with the ICC in investigations of the US or its allies.
The US, which is not a party to the court’s Rome Statute, objects to the ICC’s jurisdiction over nationals of non-member countries, absent a referral to the court by the United Nations Security Council. Afghanistan, however, is an ICC member country, giving the ICC authority to investigate and prosecute crimes committed by their nationals or by anyone on Afghan territory.
[snip]
The question is not simply who was killed, whether civilian or military (or paramilitary)
Noam Lubbell, Extraterritorial Use of Force Against Non-State Actors, Oxford University Press, 2010, paperback 2011, pg. 139:
Civilian persons, as with civilian objects, are not the subject of a descriptive definition within the law, but are defined by negation: anything which does meet the definition of military is civilian.
Anyone considered paramilitary, but not truly military, is a civilian, for purposes of the hairsplitting world of the laws of war.
“Aren’t the troops people who are killed in the conflict?”
They are called invaders.
https://twitter.com/MarQs__/status/1499648943520727042?t=l6bGj6ftL7ZbYt6pWHXMng&s=19
Like Fee Waybill ala Quay almost said
“He’s a beauty!”
Tough place to live, tough place to grow up in. A place where your morals weren't just ideas, but shit you had to put into practice.
That's why I cen't leave.
But note carefully what NorseViking said:
...when Ukraine was killing 14,000 people in Donbas
All the data you cited shows that what NorseViking said is untrue. Of the people killed in the Donbas fighting many of them both civilians and military were not killed by Ukraine, but were Ukrainian victims of the Russia separatists and their Russian helpers.
Claiming that one side in a conflict is responsible for all of the deaths is ridiculous, and a lie.
Ok, so you meant to write:
"Where have you been for 8 years when Russian separatists and Russians were killing 14,000 people in Donbas?"
That's fine, and correct because if the separatists had not started the war nobody would have gotten killed in it.
I was obviously talking about the Ukrainian troops.
What proves that separatists have started the war? Facts on the ground prove otherwise.
Claiming that one side in a conflict is responsible for all of the deaths is ridiculous, and a lie.
Mistakenly asserting the total dead as the total killed by Ukraine is inaccurate, but not a lie. I have no idea if the inaccuracy was intentional or an unintentional mistake.
I provided the correct data with sources cited and linked.
I suppose you think that when parts of a nation secede and then take up arms against the nation they used to be a part of that they did not start the war.
Nice to see you are a hard-core libertarian who believes in secession. Some people do. I presume you consider Lincoln a traitor and proudly fly your confederate flag.
Research the timeline. Originally they were unarmed protests and demanded the right to elect their governor and to decide on cultural issues. The weapons and demands for secession appeared after the government sent in the army and bombed the place.
This guy seems to be on board. Looks like his swatstika tattoo started with a branding then filled in with ink? Bet that hurt. ;-)
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