“As much as Marius was responsible for the end of The Roman Republic”
I hold a contrary view.
I believe the source of republican collapse was ochlocracy.
The democratic elements of the republican government devolved into corrupt panderers. Then they made their great error, which was to provoke the greatest general in history and allowed him to hang that corruption around their necks when he was made dictator for life.
The Roman senate of 100BC looks just like the US senate of 2000AD.
The only question is who will be Julius?
[”I hold a contrary view.
I believe the source of republican collapse was ochlocracy.
The democratic elements of the republican government devolved into corrupt panderers. Then they made their great error, which was to provoke the greatest general in history and allowed him to hang that corruption around their necks when he was made dictator for life.”]
This would make for a great academic debate/inquiry. I do agree with you about the Corruption among the Patricians/Senate. But Marius’ seven Consulships (six of which were illegal the best we can tell) broke the Republic and set the stage for men like Sulla, Cinna and on to the man who crossed the line when being declared Dictator for Life, GJC. Or arguably Augustus (Octavian) was the one who sealed the Republic’s fate. He put on a great show of respecting the Senate but his successor (Tiberius)pretty much ditched Rome and lived a depraved life and disregarded the Senate on Capris. Too bad Drusus died. And Germanicus was murdered (so we think). Rome got Caligula, who was obviously insane, and enduring his entire family being murdered, and living for years on Capris with Tiberius who is responsible for his family’s genocide, it is no wonder he was mad.
Some even argue that you can go back to Scipio the Younger (Africanus) as the beginning of the Cult of Personality in the Republic. Debatable. Humanity seems to have a propensity to want a single ruler (They asked George Washington to be king after throwing off the yoke of the Tyrant King George).
IMHO, there are parallels between the Roman Republic and our Republic but they aren’t necessarily on the same timeline.
I would argue that after WW2 the amount of authority placed in the Executive Branch due to nuclear weapons, made us an Empire. While not illegal FDR and his 16 years as POTUS is quite similar. And the 14th Amendment ended the American Republic. If we last anywhere near as long as Rome, I expect a Tiberius and a Caligula pretty soon.
And Obama broke the seal on executive orders which completely bypass the Senate. And it starts a chain reaction, Trump reversed Obama’s EOs and now the Usurper (regent for Kenyan) is reversing Trump’s reversals. It will only get worse if we last through the Usurper.
Very fair point, and Marius was a great man and general till his hubris and self-centered glory hogging forced Sulla to come back and put an end to him. While Sulla has a bad reputation I put him in the same class as Cincinatus. Marius was interested on glory on a personal level while Sulla was simply putting the old wretched Marius who didn’t mind spilling his own countrymen’s blood to satisfy the Oracle’s prediction of seven consulships (not the young great general) to bed.
Very deep subject and one to keep Roman history nerds debating for centuries to come. I don’t think we entirely disagree.