Posted on 02/27/2020 5:59:49 AM PST by USA Conservative
I don’t see.
“The rebelling party had willfully and freely entered into the government from which it was rebelling:
RW: no. ACW: yes..”
Sort of like a marriage that didn’t work out.
I wonder what his freeper name is.
True. But when you want to end a marriage you have to go through a legal process, usually the courts. So the proper way for South Carolina to leave the Union would have been to sue in federal court. Not grab every piece of federal property they could get their hands on and then fire on an America Fort.
“...would have been to sue in federal court. ..”
Our court system? That’s a laughter. What next when court said no?
“(Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, every signer of the declaration) planned & carried out an illegal rebellion. Take them all down immediately.”
You’re not supposed to notice. It harms one of the favored arguments of the South haters.
King George issued “A Proclamation for Suppressing Rebellion and Sedition” on August 23,1775 that reads remarkably like Lincoln’s April 15, 1861 Proclamation 80.
Which isn’t surprising since the goal of both was the same, to prevent “rebels and traitors” from gaining independence.
King George:
http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/disp_textbook.cfm?smtID=3&psid=4105
Lincoln:
Then they would have used the natural right of revolution, which is really what they did anyways. The natural right to revolution is an extra-legal(or illegal in the view of the existing government), an appeal to arms(war) and there is no natural right to win your revolution. Governments, like people, have a natural right to self-defense. The founders knew this and did not expect King George to just let them go. This is why Ben Franklin said; “We must all hang together, or we will, most assuredly, all hang apart.”
Also as moral creatures we can look at the reason(s) why a group of people decide to rebel against their existing government and determine if it was right or wrong. Most assuredly the southern rebels were wrong.
I find it interesting that the Founders were perfectly aware that by rescinding their allegiance to the Crown they knew they were committing treason and could face certain, terrible death. Yet the secessionists and their apologists want us to believe that their action in rejecting their responsibilities as members of the Union and committing criminal acts was somehow not treasonous, not insurrection and perfectly acceptable.
I also find it ironic on a conservative website, which, by definition should be pro-American, see so many people supporting a group that would have destroyed America.
Trump needs to ask this worthless Marine Corps Commandant to turn in his retirement papers.
"A stand must be made for African slavery or it is forever lost." [William Grimball to Elizabeth Grimball, Nov. 20, 1860, Ibid.]
"This country without slave labor would be completely worthless. We can only live & exist by that species of labor; and hence I am willing to fight for the last." [William Nugent to Eleanor Nugent, Sept 7, 1863, Ibid., p. 107]
"Better, far better! endure all the horrors of civil war than to see the dusky sons of Ham leading the fair daughters of the South to the altar." [William M. Thomson to Warner A. Thomson, Feb. 2, 1861, Ibid., p. 109]
"A captain in the 8th Alabama also vowed 'to fight forever, rather than submit to freeing negroes among us. . . . [We are fighting for] rights and property bequeathed to us by our ancestors.' " [Elias Davis to Mrs. R. L. Lathan, Dec. 10, 1863 Ibid., p. 107]
"Even though he was tired of the war, wrote a Louisiana artilleryman in 1862, ' I never want to see the day when a negro is put on an equality with a white person. There is too many free n----rs. . . now to suit me, let alone having four millions.' " [George Hamill Diary, March, 1862, Ibid., p. 109]
"A private in the 38th North Carolina, a yeoman farmer, vowed to show the Yankees ' that a white man is better than a n----r.' " [Jonas Bradshaw to Nancy Bradshaw, April 29, 1862 Ibid.]
"A farmer from the Shenandoah Valley informed his fiancée that he fought to assure 'a free white man's government instead of living under a black republican government.' " [John G. Keyton to Mary Hilbert, Nov. 30, 1861, Ibid.]
"The son of another North Carolina dirt farmer said he would never stop fighting the Yankees, who were 'trying to force us to live as the colored race.' " [Samuel Walsh to Louisa Proffitt, April 11, 1864, Ibid.]
"Some of the boys asked them what they were fighting for, and they answered, 'You Yanks want us to marry our daughters to the n----rs.' " [Chauncey Cook to parents, May 10, 1864, Ibid.]
"An Arkansas captain was enraged by the idea that if the Yankees won, his 'sister, wife, and mother are to be given up to the embraces of their present dusky male servitors.' " [Thomas Key, diary entry April 10, 1864, Ibid.]
"Another Arkansas soldier, a planter, wrote his wife that Lincoln not only wanted to free the slaves but also 'declares them entitled to all the rights and privileges as American citizens. So imagine your sweet little girls in the school room with a black wooly headed negro and have to treat them as their equal.' " [William Wakefield Garner to Henrietta Garner, Jan 2, 1864, Ibid.]
I agree. We have one flag here, The Stars And Stripes.
They didn’t swear to defend The Stars And Bars. They swore to uphold The Constitution and defend The Stars And Stripes.
And many US bases are named after Union generals.
Not some rebel rag of treason any more than The Hammer and Sickle. Comments such as this give me regrets-regrets that dueling is now illegal.
No YOU’RE an idiot. There wasn’t anything ‘’peaceful’’ about the South’s separation. They seceded in February 1861 and opened fire of Ft. Sumter 2 months later. You Lost Causers and your “Southern Heritage’’ bs. I’ll say it again, a bunch of treasonous bastards who rent the nation in two and caused the largest loss of life this nation has ever suffered in any war.
He who maneuvers another into striking the first blow is the responsible party for what follows. Secession was peaceful, can you point to any armed clash during secession. The Civil War was caused by the United States invading the territory of a now separate and sovereign nation. Similar to the invasion of South Sudan by the Khartoum government after South Sudan seceded. Federal armies and their camp followers invaded a sovereign neighboring state, not at war with the United States, (which in itself is a criminal act) and conducted American Schrecklichkeit with a real relish leaving entire states such as Mississippi or South Carolina wastelands and many yankee invaders would cheer the following sentiment of a German officer later wrote about the town of Louvain “We shall wipe it out...Not one stone will stand upon another. We will teach them to respect Germany. For generations people will come here and see what we have done.†Such behaviors are not only morally culpable but would be considered criminal offenses by any standards of military behavior. Even in the 1860’s such general plundering and destruction was considered to be a violation of the norms of war between civilized states. But no one ever said the invading blue locusts were civilized.
The South struck the first blow at FT.Sumter.
In addition to the other arguments you’ve made it should be pointed out that the area of the country most opposed to an over-bearing central government in 1860 is also the area that is most opposed to government over-reach in 2020. The South is conservative. The Northeast is Liberal. The same Southern families who supported the Confederacy are usually the same ones who support Trump today. Many of those same Northeastern families who supported unfair tariffs and the invasion of the South today support the radicals like Warren and Sanders.
The Northeast profited from the slave trade and profited from the high tariffs which transferred the wealth of the South to the North.
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