Posted on 06/09/2017 9:25:56 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
“There should be a verse somewhere that simply says, “Dude, you don’t need that kind of punishment!” :)”
Thou speaketh the truth. Lol.
Quick disclaimer I’ve spent my evening at the our lady festival and what’s a catholic festival without beer right. That said I live in greenwood Indiana and the Masons here go to the same churches, follow the same doctrines as their non mason peers. They provide dental and vision care, food and much more to those in need. They also provide unimaginable care to children on a national level. My step father has been a mason long enough to matter and I’m telling you beyond a doubt he is a devout Christian. To somehow suggest they are evil, anti Christian or anything else diabolical is rediculous. To say such a thing you either don’t know many or carry a personal grudge. If the price of being a good Freeper is following an evangelical idea of the holy then we should really consider allowing me into the catholic caucus. I promise God isn’t that picky and given the state of the world you can’t be either.
Getting rid of a social, political and economically system that has been around since the dawn of time takes a bit of doing. It happens one slice at a time. And people resist because it costs something. Including your sense of superiority.
The "enlightenment" may take credit for what ever it will but what did it ever do to get rid of slavery?
The churches on the other hand did quite a bit.
The kings who practiced polygamy all paid heavily for disobeying the clear command in Deuteronomy 17:17. What befell Hagar and Ishmael is recorded in Genesis 16. Jacob had to suffer several trials, including the death of Rachel (his favorite) and Bilhah cheating with his firstborn son Reuben. David had several curses befall Israel and himself, including a plague on Israel, the rebellions of both Absalom and Adonijah, and the death of his firstborn with Bathsheba. Solomon was cursed to have the kingdom of Israel divided.
Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon and Hezekiah all had multiple wives.
God designed the universe and the birth rate of males and females is generally equal.
1 Cor 7:2 But because there is so much sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.
Old Testament:
Eph 5:31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” (wife is singular)
The command to kings not to have too many wives was given after polygamy was already popular.
There’s a huge difference between women and wives. A house full of women is hard on a man regardless of who they are. My wife and two daughters plus a mother in law leave me dreaming of the day I live with one woman. And that’s the farthest you can get from a chauvinistic sentiment as one can get.
Actually the Cathalic church managed to remove outright slavery in Western Europe no later than ~1000 AD, and much of the abolitionist movement in the UK in the late 1700s was Methodist driven. The abolitionist movement in the US was also church driven, even causing schisms over that very topic.
Plenty of histories written 50~100 years ago would cover that, now......not so much. Wonder why that is?
With regards to polygamy/divorce/slavery, you have to consider that in the old world there was no social security/income redistribution means. Poor meant you could starve. when faced with such possibility, some of the niceties observed today were simply not realistic.
Polygamy is never presented as ideal, it causes a lot of problems (like in David’s or Abraham’s house) but it was reality, a man of much means was a better bet for a woman and her children father than some dirt poor workman.
In a similar manner, there have always been folks who cannot manage their affairs, the solution back then was slavery for the folks with very short time preferences, bad luck, excessive debt, etc. There was literally no other out for folks who had nothing.
In the world, what you say is fine. But when it comes to God, and obeying the first commandment and the second, masonry causes a man to fall short.
Here’s part of Reverend Finney’s response to both you and me regarding tolerating masonry. He was a former mason, btw, and that’s why he wrote so much about it.
Finney does not believe a mason should even be able to hold high office, since masonry is about concealing the crimes of brother masons.
(I could speculate on how this affects our modern day Uniparty, but I digress)
From here:
http://www.isaiah54.org/finney.htm
Freemasonry: Features of an Anti-Christ
Judging from unquestionable evidences, how can we fail to pronounce Freemasonry an unchristian institution? We can see that its morality is unchristian. Its oath-bound secrecy is unchristian.
The administration and taking of its oaths are unchristian and a violation of the positive command of Christ. And Masonic oaths pledge its members to some of the most unlawful and unchristian things:
1. To conceal each other’s crimes.
2. To deliver each other from difficulty, whether right or wrong.
3. To unduly favor Masonry in political action and in business matters.
4. Its members are sworn to retaliate and persecute unto death the violators of Masonic obligations.
5. Freemasonry knows no mercy, and swears its candidates to avenge violations of Masonic obligations unto death.
6. Its oaths are profane, taking the Name of God in vain.
7. The penalties of these oaths are barbarous, even savage.
8. Its teachings are false and profane.
9. Its designs are partial and selfish.
10. Its ceremonies are a mixture of puerility and profanity.
11. Its religion is false.
12. It professes to save men on other conditions than those revealed in the Gospel of Christ.
13. It is wholly an enormous falsehood.
14. It is a swindle, obtaining money from its members under false pretenses.
15. It refuses all examinations, and veils itself under a mantle of oath-bound secrecy.
16. It is virtual conspiracy against both Church and State.
Some Fair Conclusions
No one, therefore, has ever undertaken to defend Freemasonry as judged by the above. Freemasons themselves do not pretend that their institution as revealed in reliable books, and by some of their own testimony, is compatible with Christianity.
So it must follow that,
First, the Christian Church should have no fellowship with Freemasonry; and those who adhere intelligently and determinately to such an institution have no right to be in the Christian Church.
We pronounce this judgment sorrowfully, but solemnly.
Second, should the question be asked, “What shall be done with the great number of professed Christians who are Freemasons?” I answer, let them have nothing more to do with it.
Let it be distinctly pressed upon their consciences that all Masons, above the first two Degrees, have solemnly sworn to conceal each other’s crimes, murder and treason alone excepted; and that all above the sixth Degree have sworn to espouse each other’s cause, and to deliver them from any difficulty, whether right or wrong.
Third, if they have taken those Degrees where they have sworn to persecute unto death those who violate their Masonic obligations, let them be asked whether they really intend to do any such thing.
Let them be distinctly asked whether they intend to aid and abet the administration and taking of these oaths. Or if they still intend to countenance the false and hypocritical teachings of Masonry. Or if they mean to countenance the profanity of their ceremonies, and the partiality of their sworn practice. If so, surely they should not be allowed their place in the Christian Church.
Fourth, can a man who has taken, and still adheres to the Master’s oath to conceal any secret crime of a brother of that Degree, murder and treason excepted, be a safe man with whom to entrust any public office?
Can he be trusted as a witness, as a juror, or with any office connected with the administration of justice?
Fifth, can a man who has taken, and still adheres to, the oath of the Royal Arch Mason be trusted to public office?
He swears to espouse the cause of a companion of this Degree when involved in any difficulty, so far as to extricate him, whether he be right or wrong.
He swears to conceal his crimes, MURDER AND TREASON NOT EXCEPTED.
Is such a man bound by such an oath to be trusted with office?
Ought he to be accepted as a witness or juror when another Freemason is a party in the case?
Ought he to be trusted with the office of Judge, or Justice of the Peace, or as a Sheriff, Constable, Marshal or any other office?
What Is Your Answer?
I appeal to your conscience in the sight of God, for an honest answer to these three questions:
1. Is any man who is under a most solemn oath to kill all who violate any part of Masonic oaths, a fit person to be at large among men?
2. Ought Freemasons of this stamp to be fellowshipped in the Christian Church?
3. Do you believe that the sins of Masonic oaths are forgiven only to those who repent? And that we do not repent of those sins to which we still adhere? And that adherence makes us also partaker of other men’s sins?
I don’t want to beat a dead horse but the reality is republicans are alleged to share my general view on the economy and foreign policy. While I totally recognize the importance of the Christian Judeo tradition and values I know their are people of other beliefs that are better Christians than I. Than many of us. All of the masons I know are of that character.
So I suppose Catholics and bhudists are hell bound too?
"'You shall not marry a woman in addition to her sister as a rival while she is alive, to uncover her nakedness." Lev. 18:18, NASB
God judges the heart and He wants to be number one in our hearts; freemasonry is an obstacle to the simplicity of the 1st commandment, and an abomination to the second.
If concealing the crimes you know other masons have committed is part of being a mason, this is not “being a better Christian than you or I”... it is criminal activity.
Glad Pat Robertson never ran for President again.
The Greeks and the Romans forbade by law polygamy. Because it was the law, the Church made polygamy a sin because
“whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.”—Romans 13:2
Jesus said “I am the way and the truth and the life... no one comes to the Father except through Me.”
That’s the standard for salvation.
Although it’s a masonic tenet of belief, all roads don’t lead to Heaven.
An empire WAY ahead of its time in so many ways, and tragically neglected by historians. We should study it carefully. I think there's a 2-volume set called "God's Playground" that covers it. Has anyone here read it?
You must be a woman. Why a man would marry a woman is beyond me. What benefit does he get that he doesnt already have?
caww: Why then make such a statement if he isn’t “sure”....good grief man do your homework! What a jerk!
Exactly! Why should a church elder or anyone claiming to be able to make definitive statements about important issues "hedge" his statements in such a wishy-washy fashion?
He should instead say something like, "There are precisely eleven verses in the Bible which directly address the issue, and fifteen more which indirectly touch upon the issue at hand. Thus..." or shut up!
Regards,
because the passage only applies to deacons and overseers.
in any case, jesus never mentioned it, and neither did the old testament. so it is something created by paul. also, the analysis starts talking about husbands, a word which is absent from the text, so the analysis is just plain false, and merely states the prejudices of the author.
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