BIBLIANO and AMIGO: Discussions on Eschatology (Lesson #1)

AMIGO: Well, to tell you the truth, I have pretty much ignored that passage because it seems to say that Jesus would return (“come”) while some of his disciples were still alive. I just don’t know how to deal with that.

AMIGO: Wow, I admit that it sounds a lot like Matthew 10:23—Jesus returning while some of those living in the first century were still alive. But perhaps it was talking about the Transfiguration or about Pentecost.

BIBLIANO: My friend, there are several reasons why it could not be either of those. It could not be the Transfiguration, which occurred just six days later, unless Jesus thought that some of those with Him were going to die in those six days. And Scripture gives us no indication that some actually did die in those six days. And Jesus did not come in glory in judgment at the Transfiguration, as Matthew 16:27 says. Pentecost has the same problem—no judgment. This text is consistent with Matthew 23:35-46 and Matthew 24:29-34 where Jesus again said He would return in judgment in his generation. This, of course, happened in AD 70 when Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed. There was no judgment at either the Transfiguration or Pentecost.

AMIGO: Well, perhaps Matthew 16 verses 27 and 28 are speaking of two different time periods—one in AD 70 and one at the end of history.

BIBLIANO: A close look at these two verses shows that they cannot be divided. There is no break in the prophecy. We see the same verb (Greek “erchomai”—to come) in both verses. And there is imminence language in both passages. In verse 27 we find the Greek word “mello,” which means “about to.” In verse 28 we see clearly that his coming would be while some living in the first century were still alive. And these verses are about judgment, which matches perfectly with many other passages in Matthew in chapters 10, 13, 16, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, and 26—the judgment was clearly to befall the Jews in the first century. While we should look carefully at each one of these texts, let me just ask you: When do you think Matthew 26:64 was fulfilled?

AMIGO: Good grief. I never noticed this before, or at least I refused to see it. Jesus was telling the Jews that THEY THEMSELVES would see Him coming on clouds of heaven. But, of course, we know that Jesus did not come on clouds of heaven in the first century, so I don’t get it.

BIBLIANO: Ah, there may be something you are missing. “Coming on clouds with angels and trumpets” and similar language is standard Old Testament verbiage for God’s intervention in the lives of people on earth, usually in judgment. Nobody actually saw God, but they certainly saw the effects of his “coming.” So Jesus was saying this is exactly what He was going to do to Israel while some of them were still alive. Indeed, it is obvious from the text that the Jews understood exactly what Jesus was saying. Who comes on the clouds? God himself! That claim brought charges of blasphemy against Jesus.

BIBLIANO: I have good news for you. Jesus was not a false prophet. He came in the manner and time that He predicted.

Grumpa, you are right about this! Many have said that the early Christians were WRONG in their view of what constituted the last days. But stop and think about this for a minute. Who was it that led them to believe Jesus was coming back in a short time? Wasn’t it was Jesus himself? Let’s look at this passage:
Mat 10:23 “But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes.

Now if you were alive at that time, and heard Jesus say this, when you have thought that he meant? Look at this passage closely. How could he be more specific? He was speaking to the twelve Apostles. How long would it take the disciples to go through all of the cities of Israel and tell them the good news about Christ? Well actually, we do not have to guess about this, because we know when Paul and Barnabas left Judea on the first missionary journey. If you look at your map section in the back of your Bible, you will find that many of them state the time of leaving for this at about 46AD. This is agreed upon by most all scholars.
Therefore, we know that this was just 16 years at the very most, from when Jesus died on the cross. So easily within the time frame Jesus told them of this generation, they got through all of the cities of Israel. No, Jesus said that he would come again, not thousands of years later, but within the specific time frame of their completion of spreading the gospel in Israel. Of course we know that after 46AD, they continued moving around the cities of Israel due to the tremendous persecution that was put on them by the hard line Jews. As far as Jerusalem is concerned, they left when they were told (Luke 21:21) and fled to the mountains of Pella. So, looking at this passage in Matt 10:23 once again, we see a simple statement by our Lord. So I ask you in all sincerity, how could it mean anything else, except that our Lord WOULD return within the generation that saw his death?

I totally agree. Furthermore, Matt. 16:27-28 and parallel passages can’t possibly be speaking of (1) the Transfiguration, (2) the resurrection of Christ, (3) Pentecost, or (4) some period of time 2000 or more years in the distant future. None of those fit the language.

How can we even realistically entertain the idea that Paul and Peter and the other first century saints were wrong in their belief that Christ would return in their near future, without also casting their credibility into question? I’ve even heard some say that Christ thought it was going to be in that generation, but He was mistaken. How can we say that without casting his divinity into question? I think that failure to rely on these words pretty much opens the door for denying anything else in the NT.

This is good. Matthew 10:23 also helps put Matthew 24:14 in context:

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world (Greek: oikoumene meaning inhabited earth, the Roman Empire) as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

So has this happened yet?

Rom 10:18 But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have, for “Their voice has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world.”

Rom 16:26 but has now been disclosed and through the prophetic writings has been made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith—
Rom 16:27 to the only wise God be glory forevermore through Jesus Christ! Amen.

Col 1:3 We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,
Col 1:4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love that you have for all the saints,
Col 1:5 because of the hope laid up for you in heaven. Of this you have heard before in the word of the truth, the gospel,
Col 1:6 which has come to you, as indeed in the whole world it is bearing fruit and growing—as it also does among you, since the day you heard it and understood the grace of God in truth,
Col 1:7 just as you learned it from Epaphras our beloved fellow servant. He is a faithful minister of Christ on your behalf
Col 1:8 and has made known to us your love in the Spirit.

Col 1:21 And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds,
Col 1:22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,
Col 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Indeed it has!

Thanks for sharing this dialog between Biblino and Amigo. To many Christians watch TBN concerning “end times”. There have been to many preachers and teachers leading the flock of Christ way off the grid. Christians need to know the Truth about the Last days. The End of the Age was the end of the old covenant age. The Mosaic age, last days, last day, and a last hour were fulfilled at Christ second coming in that generation. The resurrection and judgment occurred on that day when the temple, the old covenant economy was destroyed (AD 70) and the power of the holy people was completely shattered (Daniel 12). All of these things: judgment, resurrection, Second Coming, tribulation, rapture, end of the age, last days, last day, and the last hour, these things occurred in the transitional period AD 30-70. Awesome! Thanks :)

Is imaginary dialogue between imaginary individuals proof?

Imaginary dialogue between imaginary individuals based on a few scriptures isolated from the whole context of the New Testament? Not to mention the testament of Isaiah whom is considered to be the 5th Gospel and most quoted by Christ and the Disciples.

Can this logically be called proof?

That's a lot to go through to explain something that doesn't need it. Some of those folks are still alive. They may have been temporarily raptured out like Enoch and Elijah or are walking the earth still. Nothing is impossible for God. Jesus even told Peter that John didn't have to die. It's seems that some people just can't take the Bible at it's word and find it much easier to explain it away into something that they think is normal and understandable to the natural man.

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