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Shame on my fellow Jews for holding up commercial flights by refusing to sit next to women!
wordpress ^ | January 18, 2015 | Dan from Squirrel Hill

Posted on 01/19/2015 9:23:25 AM PST by grundle

Shame on my fellow Jews for holding up commercial flights by refusing to sit next to women!

I’m Jewish, and please allow me to say that it’s absurd that some Jewish men have caused commercial flights to be delayed by refusing to sit next to female passengers.

In September 2014, the New York Post reported:

Ultra-Orthodox Jews refuse to sit next to women, delay flight

Hundreds of Ultra-Orthodox Jewish men refused to sit next to women on an El Al jet from New York to Israel — and spent the 11-hour flight trying to bribe people to switch seats and loudly praying in the aisles when they refused.

“It was an 11-hour long nightmare,” one of the passengers told Israel’s ynet news Web site after the Wednesday morning flight landed.

The flight – on the eve of Rosh Hashanah – was not only delayed, but degenerated into chaos once in the air, passengers said.

“Although everyone had tickets with seat numbers that they purchased in advance, they asked us to trade seats with them, and even offered to pay money, since they cannot sit next to a woman. It was obvious that the plane won’t take off as long as they keep standing in the aisles,” said passenger Amit Ben-Natan, a passenger.

In December 2014, the Daily Mail reported:

Delta Airlines flight from New York’s JFK Airport delayed after ultra-Orthodox Jewish passengers refuse to sit next to women

A Delta Airlines flight from New York’s JFK Airport to Israel was delayed by half an hour when a group of ultra-Orthodox Jewish men refused to sit next to female passengers.

Delta Flight 468, bound for Tel Aviv’s Ben Gurion Airport, was reportedly held up due to several Haredi passengers refusing to to sit in their assigned seats, which were in between two women.

The behavior by these so-called “men,” and the disrespect that they showed to women in a public setting, is inexcusable.

Yes, when you’re at your synagogue, or in other areas where everyone agrees with and is accepting of your religious views, it’s OK not to sit next to women.

But when you are in a public accommodation, where not everyone shares your religious point of view, you have no right to force your religious beliefs on to other people. It is up to you, not other people, to be the flexible one. It is your responsibility, not that of other people, to adapt your behavior .

And if you don’t like the rules on the airplane, then don’t buy a ticket.

Or, buy an entire row of tickets.

But don’t force other people to alter their behavior to accommodate your religious beliefs.



TOPICS: Religion
KEYWORDS: religion

1 posted on 01/19/2015 9:23:25 AM PST by grundle
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To: grundle

Perhaps they should only take chartered flights. Then they can sit or not sit next to anybody they choose.


2 posted on 01/19/2015 9:25:41 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Offend a Christian and he is obliged to pray for you. Offend a Muslim and he is obliged to kill you.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

This reminds me years ago, in a business meeting, I, as a woman, offered to shake hands with a Rabbi when he showed up at a food production sight to offer Kosher approval.

I have chuckled many times over the years at his “aghast” look on his face. BWAAAA.

We did get the Kosher approval, after we paid them the usual bribe. Oh wait..... usual fees.


3 posted on 01/19/2015 9:30:24 AM PST by WaterWeWaitinFor (Would Winston Churchill stand still for all this nonsense? Cruz our new Churchill?)
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To: grundle
shame on you for "shaming" your fellow Jews.

You want to know who really abuses women? Have ya seen a woman in a burkha lately?

4 posted on 01/19/2015 9:39:50 AM PST by 9thLife ("Life is a military endeavor..." -- Pope Francis)
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To: WaterWeWaitinFor
He was probably afraid of getting Cooties.

;>D

5 posted on 01/19/2015 9:59:30 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Offend a Christian and he is obliged to pray for you. Offend a Muslim and he is obliged to kill you.)
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To: grundle
Rabbi Avi Shafran is the director of public affairs for Agudath Israel of America (a very stringently Orthodox umbrella organization). When asked about the "ultra-Orthodox" (to me, that term sounds like a laundry product...) men delaying the flights, he replied:

“The principle that should govern all plane-seating situations is the same one that we are to employ in all human interactions, namely, menschlichkeit [i.e. being kind and considerate] not causing people discomfort or harm. There’s nothing wrong with politely asking a fellow passenger traveling alone if he or she minds switching seats. When my wife and I were seated in different rows on a flight to Israel earlier this year, that is what we did, and the two people we asked were happy to accommodate us, allowing us to sit together for the flight. Had we not found people willing to switch, we would have taken our seats as assigned. No Torah-observant Jew has a right to inconvenience another person, nor to flout airline rules about standing in aisles at certain times. Ideally, passengers who are not happy with their seats, for whatever reason, should ask a steward or stewardess for help. If some accommodation can be found, fine. If not, then one is required to sit where assigned (or leave the plane, always an option for someone who decides as a matter of principle to refuse a seating assignment). If someone truly wishes to control who he is seated next to, he or she can purchase two tickets and leave the seat empty.”

So, by causing inconvenience and perhaps even embarrassment to others, these men negated the attempt to follow one Jewish law by violating others. I'm sure they were utterly sincere in their desire not to violate the precept of negiah (the prohibition against touching anyone of the opposite gender who is not your spouse, parent, sibling or grandparent---the source of your "no handshaking with a woman" situation), but they should have read up more on not violating other precepts of causing hardship to others. And certainly, by providing grist for the ever-present anti-semitic mills, they also erred.

6 posted on 01/19/2015 10:12:26 AM PST by EinNYC
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To: grundle

Maybe the ultra orthodox should book on Quatar or Emirates or Etihad to the middle east. Those might be more sympathetic to their complaints.


7 posted on 01/19/2015 10:32:19 AM PST by PAR35
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To: PAR35

I remember not that long ago with reserved flight seating when males traveling alone were not seated next to females or children unless it was necessary to fully book the flight.

So this crap or a form of it is, and in some instances such as international flights, still going on. Men are perceived of as potential rapists and treated accordingly. They just don’t publicize the fact.


8 posted on 01/19/2015 11:29:02 AM PST by sparklite2
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To: sparklite2

If you think guys traveling on business WANT to be next to a child, you haven’t traveled much on business. Although I suppose it is better than being next to a grossly obese person of any gender.


9 posted on 01/19/2015 11:38:34 AM PST by PAR35
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To: 9thLife

It’s up to decent people from all religions to criticize the bad behavior by members of their own religion.


10 posted on 01/19/2015 11:46:02 AM PST by grundle
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To: EinNYC

Thanks for posting that quote.


11 posted on 01/19/2015 11:47:55 AM PST by grundle
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To: grundle

Don’t Hasidim men have a right to not sit next to women?


12 posted on 01/19/2015 12:19:42 PM PST by 9thLife ("Life is a military endeavor..." -- Pope Francis)
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To: grundle

What’s the Jewish term for “Oy Vey?”


13 posted on 01/19/2015 1:20:19 PM PST by Organic Panic
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