Posted on 01/05/2015 3:25:45 AM PST by marktwain
Family members of the 50-year-old victim say he was the father of the woman who was hosting the party. They say the trouble began with a confrontation on the front porch, when both the father and his son armed themselves when they confronted a group of party crashers outside the front door.A person known to the family made the following remark:
"He told him to leave, the party was over,” said Bob Newman, who is related to the homeowner. “One of the men he told to leave pulled a gun and shot him."
King County detectives say it appears the man fired back, and that set off a gun battle and a hail of bullets between the two groups.
Residents of the house say the party-crashers were complete strangers to them, and they came “looking for a fight.”
"I don't know why police weren’t called right away,” said Newman. “If the police had come and told those people to leave, I don't believe this would have happened."Most people do not call the police when answering the door. It does not appear that the homeowner had an opportunity to do so before he was shot. The police were called shortly after the shooting started. I was not there, so maybe Mr. Newman knows something about the circumstances that I do not. Given what has been reported, I do not see how the police could have defused or stopped the situation.
“Demand access to a man’s home, then shoot him when he says no.”
Sounds like a typical Obama supporter’s attitude if you ask me.... We pay for their EBT cards and welfare FWIW....
I've asked a person to leave my pool party once and he refused, as if he had
every right to be there because he knew One person there. He was a known drug
head and I could see he was wigging for more. I finally had to yawn in front of
him revealing my chrome 357 holstered under my loose swim trunks. I never saw
him again or the church member who knew him.
Something about party crashers and their assumed right to be anywhere. Stubborn jerks.
I do not know how many were in the “group” either, but I suspect 3 or 4.
I think the wounded person was legitimately attending the party.
It had to be at least 3 to make it a “group”. Not often that more than four come in one car, now.
Would have been much better tactics to arm yourself, leave them on the porch and call the cops to remove them.If they'd forced their way into the home, the case would be much more clear from a legal POV.
Just realized I wasn’t entirely clear.
The homeowner is now dead because he insisted people get off his porch.
Defense of life or others is worth taking that risk. Getting undesired people off your porch, not so much.
Well, yeah. If a man allows me onto his property and then orders me to leave, I'm trespassing if I don't go.
And yet the cops can find you when your car tabs are 1 day past expiration.
Yes, the wounded person was not a crasher. Missed that.
Very confusing story.
“Well, yeah. If a man allows me onto his property and then orders me to leave, I’m trespassing if I don’t go.”
That is true, of course, but I think it gets much messier once you allow them in. Easier to refuse entry at the start.
As for getting them off the porch, how do they know you insist that they leave, without communicating with them? How do you communicate with them without opening the door?
Most people do not have PA systems installed in their house, and most people that had a party going on do not know who everyone who is at the door right away.
I think it unlikely that the police are going to come very quickly at 3 AM to someone who says that people are on my porch and will not leave, on 1 January, unless you could explain that you made it very clear to them that you wanted them to leave.
The homeowner was shot when he told them to leave.
Lots of details missing. I gathered the above from several news reports.
I suspect more than two because they said “group”. It is possible that members of the “group” stayed put after the shooting.
Fair enough. Just think having some guys on your porch, even being loud and obnoxious, for an hour or so is a whole lot better than being dead. If they start trying to break in, you’re in an enormously better legal situation when you open fire.
I’ve seen lots of comments on FR that you should always answer the door with a firearm, particularly late at night. This story shows one of the perils of that approach. There’s simply no way to know whether somebody at the door may also be armed.
Weapons change the dynamics of the situation. People may feel threatened and obliged to shoot first. If I can see the guy I’m confronting is armed, I’m a whole lot likelier to open fire myself. And so is he.
I’m a strong supporter of 2A, but I recognize that a lethal weapon changes the dynamics of a faceoff tremendously, and not always for the better.
For instance, had George Zimmerman not been armed, there is a very good possibility both he and Trayvon Martin would have survived that night.
Could Trayvon have killed him anyway? Sure. But once both parties were aware a gun was involved, both immediately and accurately believed they had to control the gun to protect themselves. And once in control they both accurately believed they had to shoot to keep the other person from taking control away from them. Zimmerman himself said he felt he had no choice but to shoot when Martin saw he had a gun.
IOW, the presence of a gun turns a brawl into an almost guaranteed shooting. That’s the price of being armed. The price of being unarmed in the wrong situation doesn’t bear thinking on.
Most homes have screen doors. Open the main door and tell them to go home. If they attempt to force their way in by trying to open the screen door, you can quickly slam the main door.
For that matter, most people have those silly little chains on the door for exactly this purpose. Talk to people without opening the door.
They certainly won't stop somebody who wants to come in, but the chain torn out of the wall is pretty good evidence why you shot the guy.
“King County detectives say it appears the man fired back, and that set off a gun battle and a hail of bullets between the two groups.”
What a crock! The first shot, the one that killed the home-owner, is what set off a gun battle. NOT the guy firing in response to that lethal shot.
We do not know if the homeowner and his son’s weapons were visible to those attempting to force entrance to the house.
We do not know what happened before, when the group was first asked to leave.
It is likely that there was a reason for the homeowner and his son to arm themselves.
The dynamics on New Year’s Eve, at the ending of a party are significantly different than most other times.
Maybe we will get a follow-up article to help enlighten us, but likely not.
Most homes have screen doors.
Never had any suspicious types, but it’s a lot easier to get rid of a pushy salesman, just by saying “no thank you”, and closing the window ;)
What will you do if the salesmen come by with a siege tower to access your second floor?
Post #16 was for jttpwalsh.
Hadn’t considered that possibility, but thanks for the reply, I’ll need to consider that option :)
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