Posted on 11/12/2014 11:32:47 AM PST by zlala
I wish more folks could recognize the need for such paperwork, prior to needing such paperwork.
We had some stuff in place that was then canceled by the dementia father as his problems grew.
The message to others is not only work with their parents before they need this, but also with their children.
No. My mother is a very negative, demanding, unforgiving woman. She has been treated like a queen by my dad and all she does is tell him he doesn't do enough for her. His 2 retirements (which equal far more than most people working in a year make) are not good enough, he should have done more to earn more. She was a stay-at-home-mom & never had to work a day of her married life.
She has been told over & over dad has dementia & she responds with, "he'd remember if he wanted to" or she "will make him remember."
Call us bad children, but we had to live with her tantrums growing up, and they are even worse now.
You also need “Medical” power of attorney.
I had two Aunts with this problem...one thing we learned is not to fight them...rather go along with them in what ever state of mind they are at the moment. Then make the necessary arrangements you must.
An example....When my Aunt wanted to pick flowers off the headboard...my Uncle asked to pick them with her....then said he was tired could they pick flowers later. She agreed and both slept the night away.
You have to somehow get into the world they’re in at the moment....and steer them in another direction. Reasoning seldom works as they can’t remember well enough or long enough to have that dialogue. And all must be done in love.
It’s a hard road and one that will require outside help other and in addition to family....and this with those who are experienced care givers familiar with this disease.
Both Aunts knew what they were contending with so trust is a major issue among family members. It was frustrating for them as they recognized they were loosing the ability to recall.
Sometimes my one Aunt insisted she keep her underclothes on for her bath...so they did it her way. Making small adjustments matter no matter how e silly or non-conventional it might seem to us.
Agreeing with them , even if you know otherwise. If they hate something say you do to...but then guide them to something else.
There are moments you might think they’re fighting you, when in fact you’re seeing much of the frustration they are contending with within themselves. No matter how things go...it’s far more difficult for them then for us.
Talk to an attorney about a guardianship. It means you make all decisions for them including filing their taxes. We had to do this for my wife’s aunt. Do it now, don’t wait.
Yea it is really tough.. I had to hire an attorney take it to court where they the court hired a Guardian ad Litem who interviewed my father reported to the court and I was granted Guardianship!!!
Have gone through this TWICE with my MIL.
Wife put down a $4k deposit on a very nice home with a “memory unit” about two years ago and her brother - who lives conveniently just far enough away NOT to see the squalor and level of degradation to which his mother has sunk - stepped in, hired an “elder lawyer” for a hearing, MIL showed up (driven by him) wife went up to NJ for the hearing and the case was settled in favor of the MIL and my BIL. Wife to have medical power of attorney, BIL to have financial POA (of course - estate’s worth several millions).
So, a year later, we’re getting calls all hours of the day and night. Sometimes five or ten in an evening. MIL is losing memory faster, more disorganized, never leaves apartment - old friends have spoke with my wife about it - she calls out for fast food delivery, BIL pays bills, nice life.
Went up last spring after wife had had enough, spoke with “home” again, made deposits, spoke with her mom, we’re coming up to bring you down for the weekend, haven’t seen kids in a year or more, yadda yadda, MIL agrees to all this, meanwhile plan is to get her to the care facility so she can be evaluated by a DOCTOR, not an elder law administrative judge and attorneys.
Drove up and - per my wife - MIL is wearing same, torn schmata (house robe) she was two years ago but with more stains/tears, disorganized, two cans of soup in cupboard (despite my wife’s having local grocer deliver food once or twice a week - now we have to find out if that ever arrived at all, MIL doesn’t recall anyone coming to the door with groceries but says “I have food” said two cans of soup, and refrigerator, cabinets AND oven are FULL, packed FULL of takeout containers), she wouldn’t go. didn’t recall conversation from the night before or that morning. Three hours up, two hours arguing, she wouldn’t budge.
Three hours back. 8PM Saturday night we pull into the drive, walk inside, MIL calls from NJ “I thought you were coming up this weekend?”
Took 6 weeks to get refund from extended care facility.
BIL now calls to complain “do something about Ma”
F you. That’s all my wife’s had to say to him, other than “YOU deal with her, I did my part.”
MIL still calls some nights as much as ten to twenty times. We disconnect the phone.
We’re waiting to hear from social services or the apartment manager responding to a “bad smell” from the apartment. MIL often wanders the hallways looking for her son who she believes lives in one of the apartments.
First, in the immortal words of the bard “First thing, we kill all the lawyers,” second, do what you can as fast as you can.
GET A Power of Attorney ASAP.
We were fortunate in that I was proactive enough to have my MIL sign off on ALL the 529/UGMA paperwork turning over POA to my wife years ago when the kids started college. Dealing with paying tuition would have been a nightmare if my MIL were still involved. As it was I figured out how to log in and do reallocations before she ever signed everything over - effectively taking charge of the accounts myself - bypassing MUCH grief and wailing and gnashing of teeth.
She won’t sign anything now. Too paranoid. She actually said, as reason NOT to come with us this past spring “I can’t help the feeling that the two of you are here to take me somewhere... somewhere permanent.”
I’ve been practicing medicine for 23 years, dealt a LOT with dementia (alzheimer’s, et. al), but I’ve NEVER come across such paranoia as a diagnostic criterion.
Get it done. RFN (RFQ if you’re south of the Mason Dixon line).
Both of you have my sympathies! It’s got to be one of the most difficult times you’ll ever share with your parents. My parents were divorced when I was about 12, and it mostly fell to my step-sister to take care of my dad and hid second wife, since they moved nearby to her. I helped as much as I could, but I felt terrible that someone else was taking care of my dad.
My advise is to get other authorities to back you up. They wouldn’t move to assisted living until their dr forced the issue. We’d been telling them for about two years. Once they got there, the same dr told them they shouldn’t drive, and then they ok’d the car sale. We sold it ASAP. We needed to, to help pay for their care, and also because neither of them could drive safely, though they thought they were fine.
They were really mad, and the n my Dad would call me, trying to get me to come get them. Then I just backed my step-sister up and explained what was happening and why over and over. Hopefully you and your siblings, their doctors and other caregivers can present a united front. The people at the assisted living home have seen a lot of elderly people, and they can give you experienced evaluations of your parent’s state of mind to give to attorneys and others.
Second, you have to realize that they really aren’t making rational decisions any longer- they just sound like it sometimes. Do what you know you have to do, and know that they won’t like it, or you either sometimes. Don’t take their anger too personally.
Third, and most important, pray continuously! Many, many miracles of Grace will happen if you invite God into the situation, even if they aren’t believers, and you want to make sure you are aware of them!
I try to do everything and as much as I can to support my sister. There are 5 surviving sibling, 4 of whom are in agreement 100%. The 5th is only interested in what he can get from them. They supported him COMPLETELY financially for the last 4ish years. When they moved into the retirement center, they gave him Dad's truck, whereas, I bought their sedan. Point being, if they ever have to presence of mind to call him because they want to move home or get their car or another car, he will be an ally in any plan that gives him (more) money. He will lie to them about us & our motives. He's the sib that submarines anything good we are trying to do for and in behalf of them.
I had to get guardianship for my father. At that point his dementia was so bad I don’t think he ever realized what happened. It was gut wrenching for me. You will need an attorney even if everyone knows it is necessary and agrees.
You are in my prayers.
I should have said work a day outside the home. She did have 6 children and the home was immaculate.
You are taking the first and correct step by seeing a lawyer. Laws very from state to state; but I had to do it some years ago. Not all that complex but the ongoing paperwork is a pain.
Sounds like your mother is in denial as facing what’s happening is too painful to consider.
I truly wish you the best in this but it’s not an easy road when dealing with parents you love, let alone those who are complainers.
In a sense you have to divorce yourself from that relationship in order to do what is best for them...as if advising someone else in your situation so that your decisions on their behalf are not so emotionally charged.
Since your mother is so demanding and negative, one thing we did with an argumentative family member is we all just began to agree with their complaints....then you listen to them rant for a bit until they’re out of steam...then they’re ready for a solution....or not til another time.
You may think she needs to be grateful but if she’s been like this for years there’s little that will change her temperment now. So you have to change your approach.
Yes it can be draining...but it does work.
My experience with a mother who went through this is be tough as nails about setting up and controlling the finances now, or it can tear relatives apart....forever...later.
Best wishes. Remember that there are no perfect decisions. Make a well thought out decision, follow through with it, and don't second guess youself.
This may be a rehash of what others have said, but here goes:
Depending upon your state, you may also need a Durable Power of Attorney, as well as a regular Power of Attorney. In some places, POA lasts until death, then after death, you need a DPOA to deal with final bills, funeral expenses, to close accounts, etc.
Every state is different as to what you need, and how to go about getting it.
Whatever you do, as many have said, make sure you get the best Elder Care attorney possible. Some lawyers claim to be one, then end up not knowing relevant law.
Also, get to know & get friendly with your parents’ doctors & any other medical personnel. You may need them to have your parents declared incompetent. This may sound calculating, but if you don’t get them declared incompetent, in most places, they can overrule any decisions you may make.
Documentation is important as well. Save everything that’s on paper, take lots of written notes if possible.
We just had a death from Alzheimers in my family, with mental decline for many years before death, and are still dealing with everything, so this is all too fresh to me.
Finally, make sure to take care your yourself. Sleep, eat well, exercise, have a hobby as an outlet if possible, enlist help from others when you can. If you aren’t healthy, you can’t help them. Prayers & best wishes to your family. It’s a tough journey.
Going through that with my Dad now. I live with him and he had long term care insurance that pays for caregivers during the day.
Fortunately he gave me Power of Attorney years ago, and the way it’s set up, he’d have to get a doctor to acknowledge he is competent to reverse it.
I’ve not taken guardianship yet. But I have had to threaten that I would if he didn’t run important decisions by me first. Fortunately his sisters back me 100% and tell him to listen to me.
Early after his stroke, he traded a good car and $2000 cash to a caregiver for a broken down jeep, that wasn’t worth $2000. He ran it by me first, and I was just glad this would satisfy his new car bug. I didn’t check the book values or the condition of the jeep before I said yes. When I did, I realized just how bad his decision making was impaired.
I’ve tried to maintain his independence. I let him pay the bills, but I have caregivers that look and make sure the checks are legible and that the bill makes sense.
He still has two vehicles, even though he hasn’t been able to drive for a few years. The caregivers take him places in one.
He talks about renewing his drivers license every once and a while, and his gun permit, and he wants to know where the guns are. We tell him it’s not expired yet, and that he won’t be able to renew it when it does, He’ll have to get a state ID instead.
One issue I’ve had to deal with is that he wants to
carry too much cash on him. That one is a constant battle.
We’ve had caregivers that have stolen cash. And we have had caregivers that have stolen pain medicines. We keep all but the current week’s supply of pain killers and anti-depressants locked up now. One caregiver stole a voided check, washed it out and wrote it to herself and tried to cash it. Had the check cashing firm she went to cashed it for her, she’d be in prison now. As it was I still had to file my first police report. I think all in all we’ve been pretty lucky with caregivers.
I have had to file copies of the POA with the banks.
The IRS has their own form that he had to sign.
He checked into transferring the house to me a few years back, but an attorney told him he had enough insurance. (bad advice) I worry he will go into a nursing home and we will lose the house. As it is we have had to borrow against the house for medical expenses.
He still has good days where everything seems fine. But some days he thinks that I’m one of his brothers. And other days, he wants to know where the other Danny is. I guess he has an image of me when i was younger.
I will keep you and your family in my prayers. My father was abusive towards Mom and us kids. So I understand the tantrum aspect you mention. I always thought if it as manipulation.
I was blessed before my father died. He had a spiritual conversion a few years before his death. He was still difficult sometimes, but it was much more tolerable. You could see he was making an effort to not be so demanding and harsh. He actually had some good hearty laughs, something that was severely lacking when I was growing up.
Maybe recalling a few happy family memories might help your mom feel a tiny bit better. See if you can find something that gives her pleasure that’s not too hard on you. Laughter is good medicine, and maybe you can catch her at a good time to change her mind on the POA.
Work around him....make whatever plans you feel are in the best interests of your parents, and if all the rest of you agree..then you announce to him what’s been determined...not if he like is or not....”majority rules”.... If he balks...then he balks. ....He’s likely afraid the money issues will leave him high and dry.
Sometimes you simply don’t share information until you are ready, and ‘in place’ to...sounds like that may be how you will have to deal with him.
The "Serenity Prayer" was extremely helpful to me during Dad's passing.
So were the prayers of my church. Do your parents know the Lord? If so, prayers can always be so much more focused.
My prayers go with you and your family as mine were so graciously answered last year.
They refused to get long term care insurance when we would suggest it. They never believed they'd need it.
We tried to keep them in their house, hired housekeeper, mom would fire them after 1 week because they did something wrong, in her opinion. They had the money to pay caregivers to come in every day, but mom "didn't want them in her stuff." We told them they either needed to do those things or move into a retirement center. My sister cleaned their house for 8 years until she realized she was just enabling mom to do nothing about her own elderly care. It took them 5 years before mom decided it was time to make a move.
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