AZ:Words Make a Difference in Description of Arizona Defensive Shooting

Gun Watch ^ | 19 February, 2014 | Dean Weingarten

[marktwain]

Kriston Charles Belinte Chee was shot to death at the Chandler Walmart. (Source: Arizona Department of Corrections)

AP or the police made an interesting choice of words in describing the shooting that took place in the Chandler Walmart.  The AP story says:

PHOENIX (AP) — A man who shot and killed another man inside a suburban Phoenix Walmart opened fire in self-defense, Chandler police said Monday.

 According to Chandler police, Kyle Wayne Quadlin, 25, shot Kriston Charles Belinte Chee, 36, following a fight at a service counter Sunday afternoon.

If Mr. Quadlin did not start the fight, it would be just as appropriate to say that he "shot Kriston Charles Belinte Chee, 36, after being attacked".

Under Arizona law, you cannot claim self defense if you were the aggressor and then did not attempt to withdraw from the encounter and make clear that you were attempting to withdraw.  Here is Arizona Statute 13-404 with the relevant sections:

B. The threat or use of physical force against another is not justified:

1. In response to verbal provocation alone; or

3. If the person provoked the other's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force, unless:

(a) The person withdraws from the encounter or clearly communicates to the other his intent to do so reasonably believing he cannot safely withdraw from the encounter; and

(b) The other nevertheless continues or attempts to use unlawful physical force against the person. 

Since the police have not charged Mr. Quadlin, it seems likely that he was attacked and not the other way around.  The use of the words "following a fight" implies two things that are in jarring contrast with the self defense claim in the article.   It implies that the "fight" was a mutually agreed to combat.  It implies that the fight was over, because of the word "following".

Notice the difference in the account by CBS5, a local Chandler station:

 CHANDLER, AZ (CBS5) -
Police said an argument led to a fatal shooting at a Walmart in Chandler on Sunday afternoon.

Kyle Wayne Quadlin, 25, of Chandler, and Kriston Charles Belinte Chee, 36, got into an argument at the store's service counter just after 4 p.m. that escalated to a physical fight, said a Chandler police spokesman.

Quadlin told police he was losing the fight and said he "was in fear for his life" so he pulled a gun and shot Belinte Chee, the spokesman said.

In this account, we learn that an argument "escalated to a physical fight" though we still do not know who struck the first physical blow, which is important.  The store video may have been of assistance here, but we do not have access to it.  We know that Quadlin was released, is said to be cooperating, and has not been arrested, all of which is consistent with him being attacked, instead of the other way around.  We know that Chee was a big man,  6'2 inches tall, and 225 lbs, and that at one point he spent a couple of months in jail for a DUI.

We also know that more than twice as many people in this country are murdered with hands and feet as are murdered with rifles.   It is clear that the use of deadly force can be justified against someone using their personal weapons.   A great deal depends on who initiated by physical altercation.  That is the part that is missing from the accounts that have been published so far.

Certainly, if Mr. Quadlin had an opportunity to defuse the encounter or to refrain from an argument, it would likely have led to a better result.   All of this is unknown, however, because we do not know what happened.   There may not have been time or circumstances to defuse the situation before the attack was initiated.  It is likely that witnesses and store video are collaborating Mr. Quadlin's account, or he would have been arrested.   Being arrested after a self defense shooting is fairly common.   Not being arrested, especially after leaving the scene (though he did stay for a while) is a little unusual, indicating a pretty clear understanding of events by the police.

The narrative of the AP is a bit reminiscent of the narrative put out in the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman story.   Just because a person is "unarmed" does not mean that they cannot be a deadly threat.  Many people are killed by a single blow to the head from a fist.   Everyone recognizes that a blow to the head can render a person unconscious, at which point they are at the mercy of their attacker, and can easily be maimed or killed without resistance.

Being "unarmed" is not a license to attack people with the assurance that they may not use a weapon against you.  Weapons are the great equalizer that assures smaller/weaker people that the large and strong among us cannot assert their will without fear of resistance.  I have not been able to determine the height and weight of Mr. Quadlin.

©2014 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
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[marktwain]

Many people have their views of a "fist fight" from watching movies or from high school versions of an abbreviated version of the code duello, where disinterested observers make sure that advantage is not taken of an opponent who is down or unconscious.

On "the street", a "fist fight" becomes a potentially deadly encounter.

[driftdiver]

There isn’t anything at Walmart worth fighting over so this just seems odd. Maybe someone cut in line or took the last beef jerky.

[marktwain]

Or maybe Chee was drunk and picked a fight with Quadlin, who was just minding his own business. We do not know, but the police have access to the video, and likely, witnesses.

[Secret Agent Man]

never forget “disparity of force”. if you are weaker, smaller, disabled, injured, older, ambushed/surprised by attackers, one against several attackers, or an attacker that indicates verbally/gestures they will kill you and a weapon may/may not be visible,

disparity of force legally allows the victim to use equal or more perceived force against their attackers to stop the threat and get away.

[marktwain]

Precisely so. It matters very much who started the physical altercation, and what words were spoken beforehand.

[latina4dubya]

"the street", a "fist fight" becomes a potentially deadly encounter.

true... when i first read about this incident, i wondered more about the shooter "losing" the fight... what did that look like? how badly was he losing? are there pictures of him with injuries? was his head being bashed in? or was it being bashed against the floor or counter? was he being choked? are there marks on his neck? was he being kicked? but the articles so far have said nothing about the actual fight... because the shooter has not been arrested, i am assuming he has physical evidence on his body...

[marktwain]

The police have the video.

[oldbrowser]

Our accepted rules of behavior are foreign to many people from other countries. Standing in line, parking in a marked parking space, or other conventions that we all accept are incomprehensible to them. It’s the other side of the multicultural coin.

[cuban leaf]

A great deal depends on who initiated by physical altercation.

---

If one was armed and the other wasn’t, it is almost always the one that was not armed. And if the one that was not armed is also physically superior to the one that is armed, it is even more likely the unarmed one started the physical fight.

And yes, I apply this to Trayvon Martin vs George Zimmerman. I have virtually no doubt that Martin started the fight.

[Cyber Liberty]

He fled the scene, and went home where he was arrested after his family turned him in. If he still didn’t get arrested despite fleeing the scene, something is up with this story.

I’ll bet the shooter is a “Holder’s People.” Quite a few live in the apartment complex across the street from WM.

(I know the neighborhood very well, I’ve been living in it for about 20 years. This Wally World is within walking distance of my house, and when I go, it’s usually about 4PM on a Sunday. It was sheer happenstance I wasn’t there when this happened.)

[Cyber Liberty]

Notice the difference in the account by CBS5, a local Chandler station:

Hey Jeff! Lookit this! Channel 5 is now a Chandler station!

[ansel12]

There isn’t anything at Walmart worth fighting over so this just seems odd. Maybe someone cut in line or took the last beef jerky.

Or top-notch rifles, or a Surefire flashlight, or any of the other great stuff Walmart sells, much of it things like Colt ARs, that lesser stores won't sell.

[Uncle Chip]

It is likely that witnesses and store video are collaborating Mr. Quadlin's account, or he would have been arrested.

I think the operative word is "corroborating" not "collaborating".

If the witnesses were "collaborating" then there would likely be something wrong.

[driftdiver]

Lesser stores?

There is nothing there worth fighting over. The almost always have at least two of any item.

[Uncle Chip]

It matters very much who started the physical altercation, and what words were spoken beforehand.

Not really.

That's secondary to what was happening shortly before the gun was pulled and fired.

[ansel12]

I consider anti-gun, pro-union stores, lesser stores.

[driftdiver]

ok, there are MANY stores which do not fit that criteria.

[Rockpile]

Maybe drunk Injun?

[ansel12]

Do you have a point, or are you just wasting time?

[SECURE AMERICA]

en i first read about this incident, i wondered more about the shooter “losing” the fight... what did that look like? how badly was he losing? are there pictures of him with injuries?

Mostly all not relevant to self defense. Most statues of self defense read “the person feared for their life” You do not have to be “physically” within seconds of dying to claim self defense