MI:Video Released in Grand Rapids Open Carry Lawsuit

Gun Watch ^ | 11 January, 2014 | Dean Weingarten

[marktwain]

In a previous article, the issue of whether Grand Rapids police were harassing a person openly carrying a holstered handgun, or if the police were justified in their actions, was discussed.   Much depended on what was shown in the dashcam video, which at least one city supporter questioned the existence of.  From the mlive.com article comments:

The city supporter wrote:

"Umm, no one is taking Tim's comments as to a secret video that only he has seen seriously."

From my reading of the comments, Tim Beahan, who used his real name, never said the video was secret or that he was the only one who had seen it.

From the December 24th mlive article, the city describes the situation thus:

“There was a man with a gun, observed immediately outside a church which was then in worship services. The man was talking loudly to himself and acting oddly.

Readers can watch the video now and see if the above description is supported by it.

Here is a brief synopsis from my viewing:

The officer has slowed down.  He is on the side of the street where the church is (seen later).   Johann Deffert is on the opposite side of the street a significant distance ahead, far enough so that he is difficult to make out in the video.  The patrol car gets a bit closer, and you clearly see him on the side walk on the left side.   He stops and stands facing the street.   As Officer Moe exits the car, he turns to look at the Officer.  The officer exits the car, draws his weapon and aims at Mr. Deffert (not seen in the video, but apparent from the following images), who, (estimated from car lengths) is about 75 feet away.  He orders Mr. Deffert on the ground, who immediately complies.

The officer advances on Mr. Deffert, muzzle seeming to cross a car that goes down the street between Officer Moe and Mr. Deffert.    When asked why he is stopped, Officer Moe says that it is because he is carrying a firearm, then later says he has to check to see if he is a felon or not.   Later, Officer Moe says that Mr. Deffert was talking to himself.   Mr. Deffert confirms that he was talking to himself, and that he was on the opposite side of the street from the church when he passed it.  Then a considerable conversation ensues where Mr. Deffert attempts to educate Officer Moe, and Officer Moe insinuates that there is no legitimate reason for Mr. Deffert to be carrying a gun.  During this time, Mr. Deffert is prone and handcuffed, with snow on either side of the sidewalk.  During this period at least one other officer shows up.

The video does not show that Mr. Deffert was loudly talking to himself immediately outside a church.  My estimate is that the church was perhaps 150 feet away, as it was on the opposite side of the road, set back some distance.   I could not hear Deffert talking to himself, but the video has been edited and it appears that the officer had seen Mr. Deffert earlier in part of the video that is edited out.

I had a retired State Patrol officer watch the video with me.  When he saw the officers responses, he simply said:  "The city is going to pay for this one."


©2013 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
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[marktwain]

Nothing that I see in the video appears suspicious to me. The officers reaction seems over the top. I would not have done it from what I saw. If there were more incriminating video, my suspicion is that the city would have released it. The 911 call only mentioned the holstered gun, with nothing threatening mentioned by the 911 caller.

Pointing a gun at someone, even for a police officer, is a serious matter, not to be taken lightly.

[gorush]

...plus the video has been edited. What’s up with that?

[marktwain]

It probably was edited by mlive.com. The article says there were 14 minutes in the video, edited down to a bit over 7. I do not know if the 14 minutes include the time the officer first saw Mr. Deffert.

[cripplecreek]

The guy seems to be compliant and the cop seems to have some pretty unreasonable questions and demands.



Michigan legislative action thread

[jeffc]

asked why he is stopped, Officer Moe says that it is because he is carrying a firearm, then later says he has to check to see if he is a felon or not.

Stereo-typing much? How about Officer Moe stop any black people with a gun, or would be racial stereo-typing?

Later, Officer Moe says that Mr. Deffert was talking to himself. Mr. Deffert confirms that he was talking to himself, and that he was on the opposite side of the street from the church when he passed it.

So....? Then a considerable conversation ensues where Mr. Deffert attempts to educate Officer Moe, and Officer Moe insinuates that there is no legitimate reason for Mr. Deffert to be carrying a gun.

"legitimate reason"? Who needs a reason? The Constitution doesn't say you "need a reason".

[nvscanman]

“Pointing a gun at someone, even for a police officer, is a serious matter, not to be taken lightly.:”

Actually without legal justification for the action it’s
felony assault...a crime which this officer is most clearly guilty of.

[Lurker]

I’m tired of “the city” paying for “these ones”. Settlements need to come out of the paychecks and pensions of the thugs with badges who pull this crap.

Strip them of their indemnity, sue them personally, and leave them and their families broke and shivering in the streets. That’s when this crap will stop.

[cripplecreek]

The cop appears to be trying to rile the guy up and treat him like there’s something wrong with him.

The guy is correct that no city ordinance supersedes the state law. Its been tried a couple times and the state supreme court has sided with the state every time.

[Tenacious 1]

I personally choose not to open carry for practical and smart defense reasons. But these officers are clearly way over the top. This guy may have done a lot to educate the LEO of Grand Rapids.

LEO everywhere need some training, apparently, on how to deal with lawful citizenry. They must only get training on how to deal with criminals and thugs. There are polite and courteous ways to “inquire” or follow up on a call. I dare say, it is reasonable for LEO to “investigate” a complaint. Some here on FR even disagree on this point. But the officer really could have simply approached the guy, asked him if he had a concealed carry license (if needed in MI) and then checked it and told him to have a nice day.

I was in a car wreck about 4 years ago. Lady fell asleep and ran a stop sign. Because I had to crawl under my truck to see how bad some of the damage was (driveable or not), my concealed firearm became exposed. My shirt moved and I simply covered it back up. I wasn’t sure if an officer noticed as my head was under the truck. When I got up I politely informed him I had a license and was carrying a concealed firearm. He said ok and thanks. He didn’t even ask to see it or my license. I thought that was pretty cool.

[cripplecreek]

I dare say, it is reasonable for LEO to “investigate” a complaint.

Of course it is and I think its a good thing as long as the cops behave professionally. I call it a good thing because its educational for both police and the public.

[cripplecreek]

BTW Detroit police Chief Craig was on Fox and Friends this morning explaining his position and reasons for his change of heart.

[marktwain]

Let us hope that he is the tip of the spear on a new trend.

[cripplecreek]

Apparently he isn’t giving special treatment to city council members either which is really pissing them off. A city council member was stopped on a turn signal violation and is now screaming “racial profiling”. Craig calls it BS.

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/24416159/chief-craig-race-played-no-role-in-cushingberry-traffic-stop

Really a pretty minor issue but it looks like the city councilmember wants to make a big deal of it. Sounds like a very professional stop with a citation given for the tail light and the passenger even had his pot returned to him.

[marktwain]

Those abandoned houses in Detroit are begining to look a lot more attractive.

[Mikey_1962]

Cushingberry broke rule #1 of driving in Detroit:

Don’t get pulled over for a misdemeanor when you have a felony in the car.

[yefragetuwrabrumuy]

Everything is so much easier in Arizona. The cops are totally relaxed around open and concealed carry, and most of them see you as “one of the good guys”, citizens who can help *them* out if needs be, maybe getting a situation under control before they can even get there.

Licensing and other rules are just expensive hassles.

[marktwain]

I have heard that Bloomberg will be targeting us this year.

[Secret Agent Man]

the constituion IS the reason.

[Secret Agent Man]

the constituion IS the reason.

[DariusBane]

Sorry. Change of position about what?