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To: ROTB
Even if I were to accept all of your scriptural interpretations as true, you are still forgetting the other side of the equation. If I accept that rebellion against our government is a sin, my next question is: what exactly is our government? The old countries had a king, whose legitimacy as ruler is assumed as a divine right, and his word was law. We live in a Constitutional Republic. The right to govern (rule) exists only with the consent of the governed (exercised by voting), and MUST abide by the US Constitution.

Well, if we examine all of the ways in which our current "government" is operating outside of its Constitutional limitations, and if we also examine the amount of voter fraud which has occurred, AND if we examine the amount of lies spread through a government controlled media, we clearly realize that the organization which calls itself our government is, actually, illegitimate. Our government is ONLY legitimate if it operates within the highest law of the land - the Constitution, and they are not doing so.

The Biblical kings did not have a Constitution to limit them, so their legitimacy was never in question. Our government is a different animal, and so has rules it must follow to maintain its legitimacy.

Once you understand that our government is not legitimate, then your Biblical argument falls apart. We would not be rebelling if the organization we rebel against is not our legitimate government. If we restored the Republic and THEN rebelled against it, you might have a point. But to rebel against an illegitimate government in order to restore the legitimate government would be not only be acceptable Biblically, it would be REQUIRED.
43 posted on 03/19/2013 6:27:25 PM PDT by fr_freak
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To: fr_freak
I think you make valid points about legitimacy.

We are the governing authority in the United States of America.

A country established under God but being turned over to Satan.

Those Who have done this will be judged.

I am praying and I am fighting them.

It is better to give scripture in full context.

Romans 13

New International Version (NIV)

Submission to Governing Authorities

13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

52 posted on 03/19/2013 7:09:02 PM PDT by right way right (What's it gonna take? (guillotines?))
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To: fr_freak; ROTB

I submit ROTB is woefully unread in the history of our Founding in regards to the War of Independence.

Had he read the Founders, even those like Dickerson who feared breaking Romans 13 in rebelling against the Crown, he would note several things.

One, it was agreed in light of scriptural admonitions God required of a king - that a king loses his right to rule a free people governed by God. As Minister Jonathan Mayhew wrote:

“As soon as the prince sets himself up above law, he loses the king in the tyrant. He does, to all intents and purposes, unking himself by acting out of and beyond that sphere which the constitution allows him to move in; and in such cases he has no more right to be obeyed than any inferior officer who acts beyond his commission.”

Mayhew in essence fired the first shot of the American Revolution - and used the bible to sermonize on the Rights of the Colonists to defy, defend and fight the Crown’s tyranny that was being felt across the Colonies.

In every instance of a tyranny of men, the rulers replace God and make the people worship the king or the state. Such is breaking the First Commandment when a people are born into the gift of liberty.

Top-down government, Caste or Central Planning is of Satan, and NOT of God. Jesus specifically calls this out among Christians in Matthew 20:25-26, and a government instituted among Christian peoples was to be a SERVANT of the people in accord with Jesus’ words.

The moment such government becomes a ruler of the people - they have lost all legitimacy to rule a free people, and submitting to such tyrants is to let Satan rule over the people, because without fail - such a tyranny of men will cast God out - and demand the king and the state be worshipped and obeyed over God.

For all the Christians who avow they will die for Jesus - it is instructive to know how many will not even let the concept of resisting a gift from Jesus from being robbed from them and their children.

Because Christians in America have bought a Satanic lie; that it is a sin to judge sin and evil and resist it. ROTB unwittingly perpetrates such a lie in admonishing Americans to submit to tyranny, and refuse to act against it. As the Apostle Paul wrote, a little leaven leavens the whole lump (Galatians 5:9).

Sin by it’s very nature is NEVER content to sit alongside righteousness or liberty. It will ALWAYS seek to subjugate and force itself upon a God-fearing people, making itself more important than God.

This is one of the reasons why the Founders, in their inspired wisdom, made sure our right to arms was enshrined as an inalienable right.

A right ROTB seems to suggest we should lay down.


59 posted on 03/19/2013 8:54:14 PM PDT by INVAR ("Fart for liberty, fart for freedom and fart proudly!" - Benjamin Franklin)
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