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To: Greysard

YOU SAID: However I wouldn’t go so far as to declare all soldiers sinners.

I would not either per Romans 13:4 and Luke 3:14.

YOU SAID: Imagine that a violent killer walks around a playground and kills children one by one. One Christian, with a loaded 1911 in the holster, is present and can act. He orders the criminal to stop. The criminal ignores him. (Why not, the killer is not a Christian just by the nature of his acts.) What would a true Christian, per your definition, do?

A true Christian would be ...

1) running a deliverance ministry, so “psychos” are delivered of murderous demons per http://holyrestoration.weebly.com/deliverance.html

2) praying and fasting and binding the powers of darkness across the nation so such things would not happen

YOU SAID: However in many cases you are proposing to forgive a criminal for harm that he caused to someone else. You do not have authority to do so.

Wait, say my daughter is killed by a murderer. Should I not grieve? Would this not be a challenge for me to obey Jesus’ calls to forgive?

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Matthew 6:14-15

And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
Mark 11:25-26

Indeed, I cannot forgive man’s sins so far as their standing with the LORD is concerned. The murderer goes to heaven or hell based on how they respond to Jesus Christ. What IS my responsibility is that I do not hate that offender in my heart, and that I don’t be bitter against them. Hating or holding unforgiveness jeopardizes MY soul.

YOU SAID: You have pure evil in front of you - and instead of stepping up to the plate and doing your part you ... you ask someone else (God) to do it for you!

I am stepping up to the plate by working to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and using my God given authority to come against evil in this country, and to pray for sinners to get saved, and for Christians to stop backsliding.


75 posted on 03/18/2013 5:43:52 PM PDT by ROTB (Live holy, forgive all & pray in Jesus' name. Trust He is willing & able & eager to ANSWER BIG!)
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To: ROTB
Wait, say my daughter is killed by a murderer. Should I not grieve? Would this not be a challenge for me to obey Jesus’ calls to forgive?

There is no contradiction. One crime can hurt several people. You can forgive only the portion of the crime that falls onto you. For example, your daughter is injured by a criminal. You are free to forgive the criminal your mental pain and suffering. Your daughter is free to demand the criminal put on trial, convicted, and given a chair.

The decision depends on the degree of damage. If a child was playing with a ball and broke a window in your house, it would be unfair to call police and have the child arrested. If a teenager was trying to shoot his drug dealer but accidentally hit and wounded you, it will be harder for you to forgive. An even worse situation can occur if someone wants to hurt you by hurting innocents (Chris Dorner did that just a month ago.)

As a Christian you are welcome to forgive their actions. But as a citizen, you are required to maintain peace within the society. This is the domain of Caesar. As Jesus said on one occasion, "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's." Evaluation of someone's sins is God's part. Keeping people alive is Caesar's part. Do not mix the two.

I asked: What would a true Christian, per your definition, do?

You answered by choosing options that are not present in my scenario. In other words, your actor would freeze; perhaps he would cry, or maybe he'd curl up under a bush until the police shows up to collect the bodies and discovers that this one is alive and well, aside from soiled clothes. This is not what a true Christian would do.

My example is not even contrived, unfortunately. That very scenario played out in Norway and at Sandy Hook just recently. This is a very real scenario. A true Christian would sell his cloak and buy a sword, and he would have it with him everywhere, so that when the evil strikes (it will!) the Christian is there, in its path, to stop it. If you have to draw that sword, will that hurt your soul? Yes, it will. But letting innocents be killed will hurt it even more. No man is ideal; if you strive to be perfect, lock yourself up in a monastery, or become a hermit. You will score fewer black marks there; but at the same time you will score fewer white marks as well - life in a remote cave doesn't give you too many opportunities to help others. As an instrument of God, you would be kept sharp and well polished ... and never put to use. Why would God want to have such an instrument?

This is not to disparage your suggestion to minister to criminals and to pray for them. This is a good preventive measure. However this measure is insufficient when you are facing a drug-crazed psycho. He is not sentient anymore - drugs have burned all the remnants of his mind out of his head. People on bath salts engage in cannibalism, they eat their victims alive. You cannot reason with them, and you are not Jesus to help them with a handy herd of swine. You must act according to your abilities.

On the subject of abilities:

I am stepping up to the plate by working to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and using my God given authority to come against evil in this country, and to pray for sinners to get saved, and for Christians to stop backsliding.

That is appreciated. You do not see yourself as a Soldier. You know better than anyone what you can and cannot do, and that is just fine.

However what works for you personally may not be a good fit for others. You see, the society is not made uniform. Even ants have specialized insects for this or that work. Human society also has specialization within - it has cobblers, bakers, metalworkers, doctors, soldiers and priests, among other. All these trades are necessary, and people fall into them according to their abilities and inclination. You are clearly leaning toward priesthood. That is fine. However someone else has to be a soldier, a guard, a teacher, a hunter, a sailor. It would be incorrect to preach to them that their occupations are wrong and they have to change. A soldier cannot give up his arms because when the neighboring King decides to attack your King you will be all dead - it is the soldier's duty to protect you. Similarly, you cannot tell the hunter that killing deer is wrong - your people need to eat. You cannot tell the sailor that by going to the sea he risks his soul. Perhaps - but he has to go because he delivers food and saves thousands of other, innocent people. In other words, I can understand that a priest, facing a killer, resorts to prayer. However the soldier, who stands by the priest, will attack the killer and arrest him. Both models of behavior have place in the society; but none of them, taken alone, can be said to be the only one that is right.

82 posted on 03/18/2013 8:33:27 PM PDT by Greysard
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