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Catholics are the Problem
National Catholic Register ^ | 11/12/12 | Patrick Archbold

Posted on 11/12/2012 8:55:59 AM PST by marcbold

I am stunned that I was stunned by the election.

I am a fool. I convinced myself that the polls were not real. I convinced myself that the world I see around me every day is not real. I hoped for a redemptive moment without seeing any penitence. You can't have one without the other.

I, along with countless others, have been trying to figure out how President Obama managed to win a second term.

Trying to discover the key statistic that would explain the defeat has become a cottage industry over the past week. Every pundit on every side has a theory, women, minorities, Hispanics, voter turnout machines, etc. All wrong. But I figured it out.

I have been trying to figure out what the problem is all week, and then I finally did. The problem is you.

You, you Catholics. You are the problem...

(Excerpt) Read more at ncregister.com ...


TOPICS: Politics; Religion
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholics; catholicvote; catholicvoter; obama
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To: ansel12

My point was that Protestant religion is not the sure cause of conservative votes. And Catholic teaching is not the cause of liberal votes.\

If we get this part wrong, any conclusions will be wrong as well.


41 posted on 11/14/2012 5:47:08 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: cumbo78
Sad to say, but it must be said. American Catholics are become much like American Jews in that their true religion is liberalism.

You may be right, but it's not a particularly Catholic thing.

White Catholics voted for Romney more than White Mainstream Protestants did.

The percentage of White Catholics for Romney was larger than the total percentage of all Protestants (White/Black, Evangelical/Mainstream).

42 posted on 11/14/2012 5:54:06 PM PST by x
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To: ansel12
I think this is more on track:

The wider experience of 160 years of history and with what happens to Hispanics and other minorities is more revealing.

Add to this list: later immigrants to the large cities and lower classes of the time, e.g. the Irish.

43 posted on 11/14/2012 6:04:10 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr

We have 160 years of almost perfect democrat voting by the Catholics, including for Obama, and this is as good as it gets, we just witnessed the best voting in Catholic history from 1972 to 2012, it is returning to it’s normal place in history.

The explanation is these threads.

The entire interest of what are supposed to be conservative Catholics, is to fight tooth and nail to deny that Catholics even vote democrat, no one seems interested in fixing it, or saving America from their voting.


44 posted on 11/14/2012 6:22:03 PM PST by ansel12 (Todd Akin was NOT the tea party candidate, Sarah Steelman was, Brunner had tea party support also.)
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To: ansel12

Because it’s not a Catholic thing. Any more than black or hispanic protestant voting is a non-catholic thing.

If you go in with the wrong premise, you end up with wrong conclusions on which you base wrong solutions.


45 posted on 11/14/2012 7:58:33 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr

For crying out loud, of course it is a catholic thing.

Republicans have never been able to win the catholic vote, and will never be able to, that is why the left prays for more catholic immigration.

Even Catholics who pretend to be conservatives won’t do anything to interfere with that denomination’s vote, except to pretend that it doesn’t exist.

The republicans won 48% of the Catholic vote, and that might be as good as they ever see from those who are members of the Catholic denomination.


46 posted on 11/14/2012 8:12:46 PM PST by ansel12 (Todd Akin was NOT the tea party candidate, Sarah Steelman was, Brunner had tea party support also.)
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To: marcbold
What about the Black Protestants?

8 out of 10 white Protestants voted for Romney...95% of black Protestants voted for Obama...

6 out of 10 White Catholics voted for Romney...75% of Mexican Catholics voted for Obama...


47 posted on 11/14/2012 8:15:11 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

80% of so-called Catholics don’t even bother to show up for weekly mass. There’s your problem. Data from CARA at CUA.


48 posted on 11/14/2012 8:21:54 PM PST by michigancatholic
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To: ansel12
of course it is a catholic thing.

If it were a Catholic thing, white, brown, black and green Catholics, city and country Catholics, immigrant and non-immigrant, Irish and German and English Catholics would all show about the same, or at least a similar, voting pattern.

If it were a Catholic thing, then all non-Catholics - white, brown, black, etc. would show the same voting pattern.

The above is not true. You have on a false premise.

49 posted on 11/14/2012 8:30:46 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: ansel12

Should be:

“You have a false premise.”


50 posted on 11/14/2012 8:31:31 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr

If it were a catholic thing then it would be predictable during all of American history, and for the future, which, of course it is.


51 posted on 11/14/2012 8:45:13 PM PST by ansel12 (Todd Akin was NOT the tea party candidate, Sarah Steelman was, Brunner had tea party support also.)
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To: surroundedbyblue; marcbold

they forget to say that many Born-Again Christians stayed home because they didn’t want to vote for the anti-Christian Mormon or they voted 3rd-Party. What a shame, now we are stuck with the Pro-Abortion, Marxis/Socialist Muslim who hates America.


52 posted on 11/14/2012 8:57:33 PM PST by Coleus
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To: ansel12; Salvation

Correlation is not causation. Hispanic, Asian and Black voters of non-Catholic religion strongly indicate against causation.

If we are to make an argument for causation from correlation, then logic requires a comparison and look at the strongest correlations.

Based solely on correlation, a causation is much more likely to be the result of the higher number of non-white Catholics vs the more white makeup of non Catholics in the sample. We see this most obviously in the difference between white and non-white Catholic votes.

Correlation is much stronger for other factors than Catholic/Protestant. Let’s just take white/non white. (Remember that white includes a large range of possibly relevant ethnicity as well):

Here’s Fox’s Exit Poll results..

Vote by Christian, whites and non-whites

Obama Romney
White Protestant/Other Christian 30% 69%
White Catholic 40% 59%
Non-white all 80% 18%

The best predictor of vote here is non-white vs. white.

The best predictor of vote regarding Christian religion in total is church frequency:
Obama Romney
More than once a week 36% 63%
Never 62% 34%

The best predictor of vote regardless of religion is race/ethnicity.
Obama Romney
White 39% 59%
Black 93% 6%
Hispanic/Latino 71% 27%
Asian 73% 26%
Other 58% 38%


53 posted on 11/14/2012 9:15:02 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: ansel12; Salvation

If we base our actions on the major voting correlation factors, the answer to the ‘Catholic Problem’ is obvious:

Kick out the non whites (along with a lot of the Irish), unmarried women and young people.

:)


54 posted on 11/14/2012 9:21:39 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: D-fendr

Hispanics are recent, the catholic vote is never changing.

Besides, it is a single denomination, a single church, all members of the same denomination.


55 posted on 11/14/2012 9:29:29 PM PST by ansel12 (Todd Akin was NOT the tea party candidate, Sarah Steelman was, Brunner had tea party support also.)
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To: ansel12
We don't have crosstabs for other elections and factors. The ones we do have do not support a causation based on "Catholic" alone.

All indications are that cultural, socio-economic and ethnic factors are more likely to predict voting patterns.

Besides, it is a single denomination…

The major correlations are across all religions and churches no matter what. If we found a church comprised of all white, married, older congregants, we could predict their votes more accurately than if we only knew what Church or denomination they were.

56 posted on 11/14/2012 9:40:07 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: ansel12

I should have added “where everyone attends church very regularly” to the previous example - since it involved a ‘church’ group.

If it were just a group of people, any group, the example would apply as stated.


57 posted on 11/14/2012 9:47:26 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: ansel12

I think there is a difference of opinion about what the whole single denomination thing means.

One the one hand, I am a pedal to the metal Catholic. And there are pedaler to the metal Catholics than I. I have a rule as a lay Dominican. I am ‘docile’ to the Magisterium. About the only reason I leave my house, in my dotage, is to go to church. All my errands and appointments are scheduled to fit my obligations in my volunteer work at church.

I’m not bragging. What I do is, for the most part, fun. Tonight, after Mass, I prayed Vespers, and then hauled out my Android phone on which I have a copy of the Te Deum, and I prayed it on my knees.

This weekend I will visit other members of my order and observe how they do business to see if there’s anything my chapter could learn from them.

Again this is fun for me. I meet people who think more or less as I do and who laugh at my jokes.

Other Catholics, as I like to say, assume the three point stance the minute the priest begins the final blessing. He gives the dismissal and they are out of there and in the parking lot — as we are singing the last verse of the final hymn.

They are a real group in that we’ve all been baptized and/or confirmed as Catholics, and we’ve all hauled our sorry behinds to Mass. But there are babes in the faith, cultural Catholics, converts who, though I don’t understand this, essentially lied when they made the declaration of conformity.

I know a Lesbian who converted but is not yet ready to give up acting like a Lesbian. I trust God to sort those things out. But she exemplifies for me the convert who is drawn, but who has not yet handed herself over.

It’s a little like when I was a clergyman and I was doing the pre-marital workup. I would tell the couple what Christians think marriage is. I would caution them that it was really not a good idea to say all this stuff and not mean it. What more could I do? I don’t read minds. If they’re going to lie to me, that’s really more between them and God than between them and me.

I know a guy, a life-long Catholic, who frankly doesn’t care what the Church teaches. I don’t get it. When I stopped believing the Episcopal Church was really a church, I left it, and my livelihood. I don’t see why he is still going to Mass.

But whatever you’ve been told or led to believe, it’s not that easy or common to excommunicate someone. Our canons leave a LOT to the individual believer.

To get all particular, if Nancy Pelosi presents herself before some random priest to receive Communion, he is not allowed to refuse her. Why? Because he doesn’t know that she didn’t just go to confession and recant all her pernicious nonsense. If she did, no one is more fit for the Sacrament. If she didn’t, she’s in BIG trouble with God.

And, of course, this leads to a demographic many, if not most, of whose members are jerks.

We’re fine with that. “This is a true saying and worthy of all men to be believed, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners.” We’re the Church. We haven’t saved ‘em yet. We’re working on it.


58 posted on 11/14/2012 10:21:23 PM PST by Mad Dawg (In te, Domine, speravi: non confundar in aeternum.)
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To: Mad Dawg

They are all a single denomination, a single church, a single teaching, a single authority, they are not a mixture of Southern Baptists, Episcopalians, and Obama’s church, gay churches, militant black churches, and dozens of other denominations, like “Protestant” is.


59 posted on 11/16/2012 12:13:37 AM PST by ansel12 (The only Senate seat GOP pick up was the Palin endorsed Deb FischerÂ’s successful run in Nebraska)
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To: Coleus

Yes, but the numbers show that it is one’s minority status that was most likely to sway how one voted.

White Catholics voted for Obama by a far less percentage than did Hispanic Catholics.

Black Protestants voted for Obama in a far larger percentage than white protestants.

In point of fact, according to Pew, those were two categories of voters that increased in 2012 over 2008. Third was other religious affiliations which most likely included Muslims since they were not given their own category.

The point is that Catholicism was unlikely to influence the votes of minorities.

Also, low income voters went for Obama over Romney.

These voters, the ones who gave Obama the victory voted for their own interests without thought of religion. Their vote was based solely on the candidate that they believed would most likely keep the gravy train rolling.

But, the people need a bogie man and they have always found Catholics to be handy.


60 posted on 11/16/2012 5:51:54 PM PST by Jvette
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