Posted on 11/08/2012 1:25:42 PM PST by Art in Idaho
I guess you missed the part of my last reply where I said "abortion is murder".
I did not miss it.
Maybe you're an attorney.
Nope.
Perhaps that's why you think I'm disagreeing with you, even when I'm strongly agreeing with your fundamental principles.
No, I realize that we agree on the fundamental principles... all but one.
I never said that states have a right to make the killing of unborn children legal. You dubbed that into my comment, just like you're dubbing it into Sarah Palin's political stance on the issue.
I believe you DID say it when you said the decision should revert back to the states. And Palin believes the same thing. If the decision reverts to the states, what else does that mean except that the states get to decide whether abortion is legal within their repective borders? And what is that,. if not the states being empowered to sanction death? Your thinking is decidedly flawed here.
Seeing as how you think like an attorney, I'd expect you to understand the over-riding strategy here. It's not to ultimately create 50 Roe vs Wade laws. It's to take that power away from the feds, and give it back to the states, where the battle to protect the unborn can be more effectively won.
But in practice, your strategy must ultimately create 50 Roe v Wade laws. The battle is not more effectively waged in the many states for the same reason that lobbying becomes ineffective if it is banned at the federal level (which I am *FOR*, btw)... it just takes too many resources to maintain all 50 states. And in fact, the first 'equal protection under the law' case sends it back to the feds anyway.
More importantly, 'The Next Step: Euthanasia' becomes far more likely to become enacted 'one state at a time', in the same way that abortion was enacted... only far, far quicker... because it will be settled law that the state DOES have the right to sanction death. And the 'useless eaters' will begin to be eliminated - first in the liberal states, but eventually being adopted into every state in the very same way that abortion was entrenched... By a fiat decision in the court.
As you say, ultimately, no governing body has the power to condemn an innocent, unborn human to death by fiat or decree. But, it's a fight that will go on, and it shouldn't happen at the federal level. If the question is to be fought at all, who says the feds should have any say in it? I say they shouldn't, and so does the 10th Amendment.
There you go again... Not 'ultimately'... PERFECTLY. PERIOD. Since the Constitution binds itself to all agreements and contracts previously enacted, the Constitution is BOUND to and by the Declaration of Independence. The reason for the establishment of our government (federally) is to protect our God-given rights. And FIRST among them, and FIRST enumerated among them particularly, is LIFE... More important (by enumeration) than liberty. So it is clearly the fed's to PROTECT primarily (as in primacy), and your suggestion that the 10th holds sway is patently false, else the purpose for the union in the first place is annulled.
Now, that does not mean that the states have no duty to do the very same - As they are bound by the very same. I applaud efforts by the states to protect life, as they are bound to do. And if the states had the balls to stand up to that, and forgo federal funding in order to PROTECT life, ignoring the unconstitutional edicts of the federal gov, that would be profound in it's impact. But the states can do that NOW, ALREADY... regardless of the pretended power of Roe v Wade. Right is right. Wrong is wrong. If they do not have the courage to do so now, what makes you think they will have the courage then?
Contrary to what most folks say, it does not require an amendment to change it federally... it requires only a law defining life @ conception, and a Conservative congress with balls enough to impeach a Supreme or two for writing law from the bench... And with more than twenty years in power, The Republican party has utterly failed to do that simple task... Which means that they really ain't trying.
And the Christian Right is painfully aware of that fact - which is why the Republicans are struggling now... And why 'social justice' issues are becoming more powerful. The Christians were happy to bind themselves to Reagan's promise, which gave them their important issues while binding them to federalism and civil libertarianism... Without their important issues being served and served well, they will move on to lesser things to get what they can... And without federalism and civil libertarianism to temper them, what you get is 'social justice'.
That is the main reason I think the Republicans will no longer prevail. That is why I removed myself from among them and began advocating for a Conservative party. And I think that is where it needs to go. That even Conservatives such as yourself are not willing to adhere to Reagan means that Reagan's coalition cannot be maintained any longer. It has already devolved into a contest of popularity and pragmatism, rather than a defining set of principles that we all admire and fight for with passion.
10 Input “did she quit Y/N”; A$
20 If A$= “Y” then = PR$ = “NO”
30 If A$= “N” then = PR$ run = “YES”
print “Sara Palin should run for President “; PR
40 END
Thats my B.A.S.I.C. view. ;)
Roamer, it takes two to tango, and I’m done with this dance. You’re drilling down far deeper into this issue than I have the patience or inclination to go, hence my comment about you being an attorney.
I’m comfortable with Sarah Palin’s views on the sanctity of life. As I sad before, she’s ‘walked the walk’ on the issue by carrying a Down’s Syndrome baby to full term. I’m sorry, but unless one has done the same, they’re just ‘talking the talk’ on this issue.
No problemo.
I’m comfortable with Sarah Palin’s views on the sanctity of life. As I sad before, she’s ‘walked the walk’ on the issue by carrying a Down’s Syndrome baby to full term. I’m sorry, but unless one has done the same, they’re just ‘talking the talk’ on this issue.
I am fine with that, But like I said, what you or I think really isn't the point. It is the aggregate of the Christian Right that matters - And IMHO, if Palin runs with her libertarian record on Life, she will lose. Mark my words.
And I want to add, before I leave, that this isn't about ill will toward Palin... It really isn't emotional at all. It is about what it takes to turn out the unstoppable Conservative juggernaut. That begins with a candidate that is able to provide experience and support for ALL of the principles of Conservatism, and especially the Christian Right (as it is the largest voting block of all)...
Any Conservative deserving support must be able to harness together the social conservatives, fiscal conservatives, defense conservatives, and the civil-libertarians/libertarians OR there will be no win, regardless of what candidate the liberals field, as this election, once again, plainly exemplifies.
Getting caught up in populism or pragmatism will not win the day. Serve the principles of Conservatism, or all will be lost.
Have a nice day.
My, you do like to hear yourself talk, don’t you? I told you I was done dancing with you.
That's why I said "[...] And I want to add, before I leave [...]"
That should have been a clue that it was intended as my final missive to you, and acknowledging your desire to be done with it...
Do you have comprehension problems, or did you just need to throw that insult at me?
That should have been a clue that it was intended as my final missive to you, and acknowledging your desire to be done with it...
Oh, I understood you, alright. I just couldn't help tweaking your self-righteous, overbearing sensibilities.
I really do think you're an attorney. If not, you ought to be. I don't know, though. You're a might obsessive about getting in the last word, and awfully insistent that people digest the most arcane minutia in every point you make.
That bores me, Roamer. I'm done dancing now.
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