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Basically, no chemical reaction can run in that mode for more than a few minutes,

That is the most ridiculous thing you've ever said on the subject, and you've said plenty of ridiculous things.

Your statement that "no chemical reaction can run in that mode for more than a few minutes" is not only wrong, it's ridiculous. His later gadget has a hidden volume of 30 liters, and he spent hours pumping heat into the gadget prior to the "start" of the dog & pony show. It would be trivial to fake his results under those conditions.

Also, since it's supposed to be a nuclear reactor, he ought to be able to run it for months at a time. For his October 6th test, he promised that he would let it run at least 12 hours. But then, after only 4 hours, he shut it down.

There is no actual evidence that the E-Cat can run more than 4 hours, in spite of all of Rossi's extravagant claims.

His later gadget has a hidden volume of 30 liters, ***That’s baloney.

and he spent hours pumping heat into the gadget prior to the “start” of the dog & pony show.
***If he did that each time, it would be evidence of the fraud, so post the evidence.

It would be trivial to fake his results under those conditions.
***It probably would be trivial. Unfortunately, those are not the conditions he has operated under.

The guys on Vortex-L discuss this fact that self-sustain mode only needs a few minutes to surpass chemical capability at times. Here's an example. http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg51317.html Re: [Vo]:The September E-Cat Jed Rothwell Thu, 15 Sep 2011 07:51:45 -0700 Horace Heffner wrote: > More importantly, the claim that all the water was being converted to > steam, the repeated, defended, and heralded basis for thinking something > practical has been created, the basis for the "calorimetry" of the public > demos, is now shown to be without basis in fact. The hose was taken off. > Water pulsed out of the outlet right at the exit of the E-cat in large > quantity. It obviously did not condense there. That is true. However, in the Krivit test and other previous tests, the flow rate was lower, so I do not think you can compare them. Also if they had put a probe into this stream of steam and water and withdrawn it, it would have come out wet, whereas in previous tests it was dry. In general I agree that a non-steady state mixture of water and steam is difficult to measure. I wish that Lewan had sparged the steam and water. Before this test, I sent messages to Lewan, Rossi and others urging them to do this, but they did not. They had a perfect opportunity to do this, with that large plastic trashcan. It will easily hold enough water to condense all of the steam. By the way, flow rate was almost exactly 3 g per second. Input power will be enough to vaporize 0.7 g assuming no heat radiated from the device. That is extremely unrealistic. So the fact that about half the water was vaporized does indicate there was excess heat. More to the point, during the 35 min. heat after death event, the temperature did not decline much. This is proof that there was anomalous heat. Stored heat can only produce a temperature that declines rapidly at first and then gradually. After the power went off the temperature did not decline rapidly. Therefore the input power of 2.5 kW was only a fraction of the total power. If the total power was around 5 kW where 2.5 kW was half, the temperature would've fallen a lot faster and sooner. Lewan estimates the water volume of the cell at 22 to 30 L. If there had been no anomalous heat the temperature would have fallen sharply within minutes. You can boil a pot of 22 L of hot water and observe this easily. Turn off the heat, and it stops boiling instantly. It starts to cool a few degrees in minutes. The temperature never rises and never stabilizes, unless you change the insulation (or the flow rate, in this case). In this case the temperature will certainly fall quickly because during the 35 min. 6 kg of cold water was added to the cell. The heat capacity of this water far exceeds the total heat capacity of all the metal in the cell. > Now the new E-cat never reaches equilibrium. This is a far more difficult > regime in which to do accurate calorimetry, and a far better regime for self > deception. That is true, but there is no doubt it was boiling for 35 minutes with no input power. Anyone who ignores this fact is engaged in the worst kind of self-deception imaginable. > Further, the E-cat mass has been greatly increased, and the max input > power increased. The "heat after death" from mundane causes will now > obviously be much longer. This cannot sustain boiling for more than a few seconds, at this flow rate. Metal cannot store much heat, and this cell was producing excess heat the whole time, so there was no possible storage at all. With 2.5 kW input only, it would have transitioned from boiling about one third of the water to boiling none of it, and that would have taken a few seconds at most. - Jed

Another example. There are probably several more.

http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex- href=”mailto:l@eskimo.com”>l@eskimo.com/msg51346.html

Re: [Vo]:The September E-Cat
Jed Rothwell
Thu, 15 Sep 2011 13:00:03 -0700

Horace Heffner wrote:

As I showed numerically, it was not reasonable that no water was ejected in the prior demonstration tests unless the tests were run at precisely the right input power (from electric plus LENR) at all times to just boil all the water yet not raise the steam temperature. Not likely!

Quite likely. Any cook knows how to keep a pot from boiling over.

This would have been far superior to doing nothing. Better to insulate the barrel.

That is not necessary. Just use a lot of water and keep the test limited to around 5 min. As long as the overall water temperature does not go much above ambient you don’t have to worry about heat losses.

Of course the thermal mass could possibly be mostly lead (at 0.14 kJ/(kg K)), but on the other hand it could be mostly Mg ((at 1.05 kJ/(kg K)). We don’t really know. Even if it is mostly lead, and driven to 200°C, it will still hold more than required to bring the 6 kg to boiling. Since the amount of steam was not actually measured not much more energy has to be supplied to provide some steam.

At least half of it was boiled. Lewan tells me the the boiling did not decrease noticeably during the heat-after-death event. Furthermore, the entire experimental run before that heat-after-death event was highly exothermic. There was no time during the run when heat might have been stored up. On the contrary the machine should have cooled down several hundred degrees. It should have been covered with frost, like a canister of butane firing a grill. (Boyle’s law is readily apparent in Atlanta outdoor grilling weather.) The heat came out as quickly as it went in. With 2.5 kW going in it would have been barely boiling, less than 0.7 g out of 3 g for the overall run. After the power went off, the metal would have quickly cooled down to stop all boiling.

I doubt it would have boiled at all with only 2.5 kW. Even with insulation the box, the pipes and other components would have radiated so much heat, only hot water would have come out. Anyway the major heat loss path was from the fluid, not through the insulation.

- Jed

I watched a video yesterday that had Mats Lewan (a Rossi believer and reporter for NY Teknik) say that inside the reaction chamber, the reactants were the same size as a potato. I don’t know which E-cat he was referring to but was in front of a Fat-Cat. What is in the rest of the cases’ volume? It’s possible, that he meant that if you squeezed all the reactants into one place, they were only the size of a potato. I assume, the nickel reactant is a spongy material so it has the maximum area to react with.