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To: Mind-numbed Robot
I am not sure what you stance is. Whether or not you lack belief in God or whether you do believe there is No-God. That is an important difference, at least to me.

Yes, it's an important difference to me too. That's why I keep saying, "It's not that I believe there is No God. It's that I do not believe there is God." It's a very important difference (at least when it comes to debate.)

You often refer to logic for your reasoning and anti-logic for ours. We see more logic in what we believe than in what you believe and that seems to lead back to the beginning - Creation. I see no validity in assuming a Big Bang was the beginning because that leads inextricably to the beginning of the beginning - what banged? Yet, it is from that that the rest unfolds. So, I suppose that should be the starting point of these discussions and it often is.

Are you sure I refer to logic often for my reasoning? Look back, because I don't think I do. I'm not particularly philosophical and I don't rely heavily on logic.

All I rely on is
1.) the fact that the world makes sense even without a God.
2.) I don't remember being conscious before I was born
3.) I was under anesthesia once and it was non-existence.

That's actually it. Oh... and I don't care how the universe began. I just don't. I don't know why people keep going back to that.

The relevance of gravity, which metmom, brought up, is we know that gravity itself exists,

My only point is that we don't have "faith" in gravity. We've found it to be reliable, so we take it for granted. That's not really the same as Faith in God. I think she brought it up to try and convince me that I'm "a believer" too, and we just differ in the details. But I'm not, and we don't.

Do you believe man has a spiritual nature?

No.

Do you believe there are recorded and observable phenomena that we cannot explain?

Well, there's Bigfoot.

I believe that for those who can make that "leap of faith" the Bible has explanations for it all.

Bible explains Bigfoot? Look, anything we can't explain yet simply means we need more information.

67 posted on 01/03/2012 2:19:51 PM PST by A_perfect_lady (Anyone opposed to Newt should remember: we're not electing a messiah, we're electing a politician.)
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To: A_perfect_lady; betty boop

Thank you for clarifying your thinking. It is all perfectly reasonable, as I see it. You are also right that no one can sell God to another who has no interest in the subject.

In my early thinking on the subject I concluded that unless a person is perfectly content with there being no God and that when we die that is the end, period, that person has a difficult time reaching a sincere and honest belief. Otherwise, the fear of death, that most basic thing which our DNA imbues us with (fear) and instructs us to avoid (death), will encourage us toward a belief because we want it to be true rather than really believing it. I imagine you are content with death. That is what our observations and reasoning would tell us. I also imagine that you are honestly not concerned with alternatives.

For me, belief also has many practical benefits. Believing that God has a plan for my life is comforting and it encourages positive thinking. Believing that I have been forgiven for my sins eliminates guilt and depression and encourages and strengthens me to continually seek the ideal. Loving God and my fellow man feels good and it energizes me. Giving thanks and praise instead of asking for things and seeking my selfish desires also has a salutary effect. In short, most of my human foibles and the problems I face are addressed by Christianity and that helps me lead a more satisfying life.

Perhaps you do the same with mental discipline and understanding and perhaps I could have, too, but frankly, this is easier and I have more trust in it. There are also the feelings that occur within me that I cannot explain nor easily describe, things like the smile that comes to my face when prayers seem to have been answered; simple ambient moods and feelings of goodwill; peace for no reason; and more. Those I doubt I could achieve on my own.

This exchange has been enjoyable.


70 posted on 01/03/2012 3:58:49 PM PST by Mind-numbed Robot
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