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To: Johnny B.
"I have, more than once, presented a fairly detailed post explaining how those samples actually contradict Rossi's claim. Nobody has posted a serious rebuttal to it. I guess the Rossi fanboys don't want a serious discussion."

"It was reported that two Swedish scientists who participated in the October 6 testing of Energy Catalyzer, Professor Hanno Essén and Professor Sven Kullander have also tested the byproducts of the E-Cat. They report “elemental and isotopic analysis was performed on the samples utilizing both X-ray Fluorescence and Inductively Coupled Plasma Mass Spectrometry. The result was that the fresh nickel powder was almost totally pure nickel, but the nickel powder that had been in an E-Cat contained 10% copper and 11% iron. Two of the copper isotopes detected were Cu63 and Cu65”. Obviously, the above results are proof of a fusion reaction taking place in the E-Cat reactor! Now those tests need to be confirmed by others."

Maybe you oughta post that analysis again, because the above info seems to contradict it. Note that Rossi sent a BLANK SAMPLE along with the "used" material.

So, apparently, the DATA from the TWO samples shows that the E-Cat converts Ni to Cu and perhaps Fe. Now, maybe the isotopic analysis of the Cu and Fe don't differ from "natural abundance". but given that we have no clue as to the actual mechanism of the transformations, one CANNOT draw the conclusion from the isotope ratios that "it's a scam", when the elemental analysis plainly shows formation of Cu and Fe.

Well, one "can" draw that conclusion if one is a pathological skeptic. The correct approach is to reserve judgment and await clarifying data.

I note in passing that the info in bold comes directly from the people who did the analysis, and not a verbal quotation from someone else who "talked to them".

219 posted on 11/18/2011 5:19:46 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
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To: Wonder Warthog
The result was that the fresh nickel powder was almost totally pure nickel, but the nickel powder that had been in an E-Cat contained 10% copper and 11% iron. Two of the copper isotopes detected were Cu63 and Cu65”.
I'm sorry, I thought you understood this stuff.

63Cu and 65Cu are both naturally-occurring isotopes of Copper. Their presence doesn't prove, or even suggest, that there was any type of nuclear process involved. This is entirely consistent with Rossi mixing some Nickel powder with some Copper powder and some Iron powder, using nothing more sophisticated than a kitchen scale.

Your quote (it would have been appropriate to include a link) doesn't mention anything about the isotope ratio of the elements. The article I posted (to which I did include a link) stated that the isotope ratio of both the Nickel and Copper were identical to those found in nature.

Come back when you understand the difference between an element and an isotope, and when you can explain how Rossi can claim to be "enhancing" the Nickel isotope ratios, and claim to be "transmuting" Nickel into Copper, without making any changes to the natural isotope ratio.

220 posted on 11/18/2011 5:59:46 AM PST by Johnny B.
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To: Wonder Warthog

The result that I got not off a Rossi site said it was the wrong Isotope.

I don’t trust the Rossi News Service, sorry.


225 posted on 11/18/2011 7:03:10 AM PST by dila813
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To: Wonder Warthog
A couple of additional thoughts:
So, apparently, the DATA from the TWO samples shows that the E-Cat converts Ni to Cu and perhaps Fe.
No, the data shows that one sample is pure "ordinary" (as found in nature), Nickel, and the other sample is "ordinary" (as found in nature) Nickel and "ordinary" (as found in nature) "Copper" and "ordinary" (as found in nature) Iron. There is nothing in the analysis that gives the slightest clue regarding the relationship between the two samples. That's based entirely on Rossi's unsubstantiated claims.

If you believe Rossi's unsubstantiated claim that his E-Cat transmuted on into the other, then you could conclude that the change was due to some unknown, unexplainable nuclear process.

If you don't believe Rossi, then all you need is a few vials of "ordinary" (as found in nature) metal powders and a kitchen scale to produce the second sample.

Since you seem to be uneducated on this subject, here's a brief explanation of why such a reaction would be unexplainable:

The original article states that Rossi used 62Ni and 64Ni in the reactions. The trouble is, 62Ni only makes up 3.6% of natural Nickel, and 64Ni is less than 1%. So, even if those isotopes were completely turned into Copper and Iron, there isn't enough of those isotopes to produce anything like either 10% Copper or 11% Iron, let alone both.

And even if they could, then there would be 0% of those isotopes in the "ash" sample, which is not the case, according to the article I referenced.

There is a paper from Rossis Journal blog (referenced above) that claims that Rossi's E-Cat is converting 58Ni into Copper and Iron. This, at least, is plausible, since there is enough 58Ni (68%) to produce the resulting Copper and Iron. But even here, there is the problem of ratios. If you convert 20% of the 58Ni into something else, it will no longer be 58Ni, and the isotope ratios will be way out of whack, which the analysis shows is not true.

And, even if you get past all of that, you still have to come up with some magic transformations that allow the original Nickel isotopes to convert into different isotopes of Copper and Iron so that they just happen to keep the exact ratios as in nature. You would need something like "x% of 58Ni turns into 63Cu, while y% turns into 65Cu and z% turns into each of the four stable (and none of the unstable) isotopes of Iron, in exactly the right ratios to make it appear that nothing at all has happened to the sample.

This is nothing less than preposterous. The fact that Miley (referenced above) does show 39 different isotope ratio changes makes Rossi's claims even more ridiculous. If Rossi could show any non-natural isotope ratios, it would at least suggest some sort of nuclear process. But that would be expensive and difficult, so Rossi just ignored it, told the world that he had an analysis done (without releasing the actual report, and without proving that his sample was genuine). As usual with Rossi, he isn't allowing enough information to come out to clearly answer the questions.

Since Rossi is trying to use this "secret" analysis to bolster his claims, perhaps he should release it. The most reasonable theory is he won't release it because it will show that he's a fraud. It can't be that he's trying to protect his intellectual property, since he is now (supposedly) selling E-Cats to anyone who wants one. If he ever actually delivers one, the owner will certainly do the experiment themselves anyway.

226 posted on 11/18/2011 7:27:15 AM PST by Johnny B.
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