Posted on 07/17/2011 2:49:15 PM PDT by blam
“The real reason is that the executive branch controls Treasury, Obama controls the executive branch, and someone controls Obama. That someone wants a. to use the money that would normally go to Social Security for funding something else, and b. to use this diversion of funds to blame the Republican for not letting Barry have his way and spending even more money that would do the very same thing even more quickly.”
You hit the nail on the head. If you’re a scientist familiar with chemistry, you know that vinegar is NOT a weak acid (Acetic, a pH of 2.4, one of the strongest), merely a strong acid, highly diluted. I too think the “Drink vinegar to get rid of heartburn” is silly, though I have never tried it. For what it’s worth, allegedly RAW (only, not the pasteurized version in most stores) apple cider vinegar is supposed to have enzymes/organisms (I guess from the mother, maybe), which assists with problems causing heartburn, but I have yet to believe it. Even if it was true, it would not apply, and is probably placebo if anything, but I’d suspect the majority who attempt this practice are misguided.
You said:
“She said that scientists just believe whatever they read in books but she believes what people experience and tell her.”
For what it’s worth, scientists aren’t what they used to be. There are thousands that believe in the global warming religion, thousands more that believe in the biological only petroleum lie, and even more who pontificate on unobservable topics, which isn’t really science.
In any event, your analysis of the SS debacle is top notch, I just wanted to give you information relevant to the other issues you addressed.
Without the concept of inflation (Increasing money supply), the SS ponzi scheme would be even less workable. Without inflation there’s virtually no interest, and therefore the idea of getting out more than you paid in, is even less workable. And if you get out only what you paid in, there is even less of a reason to have it change hands through all of the government officials, skimming off the top all along the way.
“And Grandma can sleep well, knowing that foreign bondholders are first in line during our bankruptcy reorg, and getting her check is dependent on borrowing money overseas from those same bondholders.”
The most simple explanation I have seen, and ended on the most succinct summation of the predicament. Spot on.
You forgot the Dept. of (no) Energy and the EPA.
My Congressman, a Democrat, knows his wife and property are pledged to the idea that payment will make ~ and it doesn't matter how many guards he has around him when he's on Capitol HIll, if she's not in there with him she has a serious problem, as does his home.
Now I don't have anything planned, nor does anyone i know, but this area attracts more than its fair share of the nutballs who drive in with trucks full of dynamite, or who hijack airplanes and crash them into things (like the Pentagon). Just anything could happen.
Stirring the Social Security pot might seem like an innocuous "threat" to people like Obama ~ but those grandmas and grandpas have some crazy chilluns ~ and it only takes a few of them to make life very miserable around here.
We adults will be having what Carl Rowen and other black columnists called "a white riot" ~ in the courts, in visits with our Congresscritters, and doing lawful things wherever we can of course, but that's going to stir up the nut cases. Just can't hide something like this from them.
I was free forming the list
I would have far more tolerance for a
straight up fight over guns vs butter
No new taxes, soak the rich, fair tax, capital confiscation
than this despicable fear mongering
This President makes me puke
How does improved productivity "steal"?
Makes you want to lock and load!
How about this for an idea...when social security stops...if it in fact does at some point, those of us who never drew a dime should cost out how much over our working careers we paid into this pit and then deduct it from our income taxes..right off the top..screw this govt.
From an e-mail I got today.
President Obama signed a government takeover of healthcare into law. Below is a list of new boards and commissions created in the bill:
1. Grant program for consumer assistance offices (Section 1002, p. 37)
2. Grant program for states to monitor premium increases (Section 1003, p. 42)
3. Committee to review administrative simplification standards (Section 1104, p. 71)
4. Demonstration program for state wellness programs (Section 1201, p. 93)
5. Grant program to establish state Exchanges (Section 1311(a), p. 130)
6. State American Health Benefit Exchanges (Section 1311(b), p. 131)
7. Exchange grants to establish consumer navigator programs (Section 1311(i), p. 150)
8. Grant program for state cooperatives (Section 1322, p. 169)
9. Advisory board for state cooperatives (Section 1322(b)(3), p. 173)
10. Private purchasing council for state cooperatives (Section 1322(d), p. 177)
11. State basic health plan programs (Section 1331, p. 201)
12. State-based reinsurance program (Section 1341, p. 226)
13. Program of risk corridors for individual and small group markets (Section 1342, p. 233)
14. Program to determine eligibility for Exchange participation (Section 1411, p. 267)
15. Program for advance determination of tax credit eligibility (Section 1412, p. 288)
16. Grant program to implement health IT enrollment standards (Section 1561, p. 370)
17. Federal Coordinated Health Care Office for dual eligible beneficiaries (Section 2602, p. 512)
18. Medicaid quality measurement program (Section 2701, p. 518)
19. Medicaid health home program for people with chronic conditions, and grants for planning same (Section 2703, p. 524)
20. Medicaid demonstration project to evaluate bundled payments (Section 2704, p. 532)
21. Medicaid demonstration project for global payment system (Section 2705, p. 536)
22. Medicaid demonstration project for accountable care organizations (Section 2706, p. 538)
23. Medicaid demonstration project for emergency psychiatric care (Section 2707, p. 540)
24. Grant program for delivery of services to individuals with postpartum depression (Section 2952(b), p. 591)
25. State allotments for grants to promote personal responsibility education programs (Section 2953, p. 596)
26. Medicare value-based purchasing program (Section 3001(a), p. 613)
27. Medicare value-based purchasing demonstration program for critical access hospitals (Section 3001(b), p. 637)
28. Medicare value-based purchasing program for skilled nursing facilities (Section 3006(a), p. 666)
29. Medicare value-based purchasing program for home health agencies (Section 3006(b), p. 668)
30. Interagency Working Group on Health Care Quality (Section 3012, p. 688)
31. Grant program to develop health care quality measures (Section 3013, p. 693)
32. Center for Medicare and Medicaid Innovation (Section 3021, p. 712)
33. Medicare shared savings program (Section 3022, p. 728)
34. Medicare pilot program on payment bundling (Section 3023, p. 739)
35. Independence at home medical practice demonstration program (Section 3024, p. 752)
36. Program for use of patient safety organizations to reduce hospital readmission rates (Section 3025(b), p. 775)
37. Community-based care transitions program (Section 3026, p. 776)
38. Demonstration project for payment of complex diagnostic laboratory tests (Section 3113, p. 800)
39. Medicare hospice concurrent care demonstration project (Section 3140, p. 850)
40. Independent Payment Advisory Board (Section 3403, p. 982)
41. Consumer Advisory Council for Independent Payment Advisory Board (Section 3403, p. 1027)
42. Grant program for technical assistance to providers implementing health quality practices (Section 3501, p. 1043)
43. Grant program to establish interdisciplinary health teams (Section 3502, p. 1048)
44. Grant program to implement medication therapy management (Section 3503, p. 1055)
45. Grant program to support emergency care pilot programs (Section 3504, p. 1061)
46. Grant program to promote universal access to trauma services (Section 3505(b), p. 1081)
47. Grant program to develop and promote shared decision-making aids (Section 3506, p. 1088)
48. Grant program to support implementation of shared decision-making (Section 3506, p. 1091)
49. Grant program to integrate quality improvement in clinical education (Section 3508, p. 1095)
50. Health and Human Services Coordinating Committee on Women?s Health (Section 3509(a), p. 1098)
51. Centers for Disease Control Office of Women?s Health (Section 3509(b), p. 1102)
52. Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality Office of Women?s Health (Section 3509(e), p. 1105)
53. Health Resources and Services Administration Office of Women?s Health (Section 3509(f), p. 1106)
54. Food and Drug Administration Office of Women?s Health (Section 3509(g), p. 1109)
55. National Prevention, Health Promotion, and Public Health Council (Section 4001, p. 1114)
56. Advisory Group on Prevention, Health Promotion, and Integrative and Public Health (Section 4001(f), p. 1117)
57. Prevention and Public Health Fund (Section 4002, p. 1121)
58. Community Preventive Services Task Force (Section 4003(b), p. 1126)
59. Grant program to support school-based health centers (Section 4101, p. 1135)
60. Grant program to promote research-based dental caries disease management (Section 4102, p. 1147)
61. Grant program for States to prevent chronic disease in Medicaid beneficiaries (Section 4108, p. 1174)
62. Community transformation grants (Section 4201, p. 1182)
63. Grant program to provide public health interventions (Section 4202, p. 1188)
64. Demonstration program of grants to improve child immunization rates (Section 4204(b), p. 1200)
65. Pilot program for risk-factor assessments provided through community health centers (Section 4206, p. 1215)
66. Grant program to increase epidemiology and laboratory capacity (Section 4304, p. 1233)
67. Interagency Pain Research Coordinating Committee (Section 4305, p. 1238)
68. National Health Care Workforce Commission (Section 5101, p. 1256)
69. Grant program to plan health care workforce development activities (Section 5102(c), p. 1275)
70. Grant program to implement health care workforce development activities (Section 5102(d), p. 1279)
71. Pediatric specialty loan repayment program (Section 5203, p. 1295)
72. Public Health Workforce Loan Repayment Program (Section 5204, p. 1300)
73. Allied Health Loan Forgiveness Program (Section 5205, p. 1305)
74. Grant program to provide mid-career training for health professionals (Section 5206, p. 1307)
75. Grant program to fund nurse-managed health clinics (Section 5208, p. 1310)
76. Grant program to support primary care training programs (Section 5301, p. 1315)
77. Grant program to fund training for direct care workers (Section 5302, p. 1322)
78. Grant program to develop dental training programs (Section 5303, p. 1325)
79. Demonstration program to increase access to dental health care in underserved communities (Section 5304, p. 1331)
80. Grant program to promote geriatric education centers (Section 5305, p. 1334)
81. Grant program to promote health professionals entering geriatrics (Section 5305, p. 1339)
82. Grant program to promote training in mental and behavioral health (Section 5306, p. 1344)
83. Grant program to promote nurse retention programs (Section 5309, p. 1354)
84. Student loan forgiveness for nursing school faculty (Section 5311(b), p. 1360)
85. Grant program to promote positive health behaviors and outcomes (Section 5313, p. 1364)
86. Public Health Sciences Track for medical students (Section 5315, p. 1372)
87. Primary Care Extension Program to educate providers (Section 5405, p. 1404)
88. Grant program for demonstration projects to address health workforce shortage needs (Section 5507, p. 1442)
89. Grant program for demonstration projects to develop training programs for home health aides (Section 5507, p. 1447)
90. Grant program to establish new primary care residency programs (Section 5508(a), p. 1458)
91. Program of payments to teaching health centers that sponsor medical residency training (Section 5508(c), p. 1462)
92. Graduate nurse education demonstration program (Section 5509, p. 1472)
93. Grant program to establish demonstration projects for community-based mental health settings (Section 5604, p. 1486)
94. Commission on Key National Indicators (Section 5605, p. 1489)
95. Quality assurance and performance improvement program for skilled nursing facilities (Section 6102, p. 1554)
96. Special focus facility program for skilled nursing facilities (Section 6103(a)(3), p. 1561)
97. Special focus facility program for nursing facilities (Section 6103(b)(3), p. 1568)
98. National independent monitor pilot program for skilled nursing facilities and nursing facilities (Section 6112, p. 1589)
99. Demonstration projects for nursing facilities involved in the culture change movement (Section 6114, p. 1597)
100. Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute (Section 6301, p. 1619)
101. Standing methodology committee for Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute (Section 6301, p. 1629)
102. Board of Governors for Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute (Section 6301, p. 1638)
103. Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Trust Fund (Section 6301(e), p. 1656)
104. Elder Justice Coordinating Council (Section 6703, p. 1773)
105. Advisory Board on Elder Abuse, Neglect, and Exploitation (Section 6703, p. 1776)
106. Grant program to create elder abuse forensic centers (Section 6703, p. 1783)
107. Grant program to promote continuing education for long-term care staffers (Section 6703, p. 1787)
108. Grant program to improve management practices and training (Section 6703, p. 1788)
109. Grant program to subsidize costs of electronic health records (Section 6703, p. 1791)
110. Grant program to promote adult protective services (Section 6703, p. 1796)
111. Grant program to conduct elder abuse detection and prevention (Section 6703, p. 1798)
112. Grant program to support long-term care ombudsmen (Section 6703, p. 1800)
113. National Training Institute for long-term care surveyors (Section 6703, p. 1806)
114. Grant program to fund State surveys of long-term care residences (Section 6703, p. 1809)
115. CLASS Independence Fund (Section 8002, p. 1926)
116. CLASS Independence Fund Board of Trustees (Section 8002, p. 1927)
117. CLASS Independence Advisory Council (Section 8002, p. 1931)
118. Personal Care Attendants Workforce Advisory Panel (Section 8002(c), p. 1938)
119. Multi-state health plans offered by Office of Personnel Management (Section 10104(p), p. 2086)
120. Advisory board for multi-state health plans (Section 10104(p), p. 2094)
121. Pregnancy Assistance Fund (Section 10212, p. 2164)
122. Value-based purchasing program for ambulatory surgical centers (Section 10301, p. 2176)
123. Demonstration project for payment adjustments to home health services (Section 10315, p. 2200)
124. Pilot program for care of individuals in environmental emergency declaration areas (Section 10323, p. 2223)
125. Grant program to screen at-risk individuals for environmental health conditions (Section 10323(b), p. 2231)
126. Pilot programs to implement value-based purchasing (Section 10326, p. 2242)
127. Grant program to support community-based collaborative care networks (Section 10333, p. 2265)
128. Centers for Disease Control Office of Minority Health (Section 10334, p. 2272)
129. Health Resources and Services Administration Office of Minority Health (Section 10334, p. 2272)
130. Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration Office of Minority Health (Section 10334, p. 2272)
131. Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality Office of Minority Health (Section 10334, p. 2272)
132. Food and Drug Administration Office of Minority Health (Section 10334, p. 2272)
133. Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services Office of Minority Health (Section 10334, p. 2272)
134. Grant program to promote small business wellness programs (Section 10408, p. 2285)
135. Cures Acceleration Network (Section 10409, p. 2289)
136. Cures Acceleration Network Review Board (Section 10409, p. 2291)
137. Grant program for Cures Acceleration Network (Section 10409, p. 2297)
138. Grant program to promote centers of excellence for depression (Section 10410, p. 2304)
139. Advisory committee for young women?s breast health awareness education campaign (Section 10413, p. 2322)
140. Grant program to provide assistance to provide information to young women with breast cancer (Section 10413, p. 2326)
141. Interagency Access to Health Care in Alaska Task Force (Section 10501, p. 2329)
142. Grant program to train nurse practitioners as primary care providers (Section 10501(e), p. 2332)
143. Grant program for community-based diabetes prevention (Section 10501(g), p. 2337)
144. Grant program for providers who treat a high percentage of medically underserved populations (Section 10501(k), p. 2343)
145. Grant program to recruit students to practice in underserved communities (Section 10501(l), p. 2344)
146. Community Health Center Fund (Section 10503, p. 2355)
147. Demonstration project to provide access to health care for the uninsured at reduced fees (Section 10504, p. 2357)
148. Demonstration program to explore alternatives to tort litigation (Section 10607, p. 2369)
149. Indian Health demonstration program for chronic shortages of health professionals (S. 1790, Section 112, p. 24)*
150. Office of Indian Men?s Health (S. 1790, Section 136, p. 71)*
151. Indian Country modular component facilities demonstration program (S. 1790, Section 146, p. 108)*
152. Indian mobile health stations demonstration program (S. 1790, Section 147, p. 111)*
153. Office of Direct Service Tribes (S. 1790, Section 172, p. 151)*
154. Indian Health Service mental health technician training program (S. 1790, Section 181, p. 173)*
155. Indian Health Service program for treatment of child sexual abuse victims (S. 1790, Section 181, p. 192)*
156. Indian Health Service program for treatment of domestic violence and sexual abuse (S. 1790, Section 181, p. 194)*
157. Indian youth telemental health demonstration project (S. 1790, Section 181, p. 204)*
158. Indian youth life skills demonstration project (S. 1790, Section 181, p. 220)*
159. Indian Health Service Director of HIV/AIDS Prevention and Treatment (S. 1790, Section 199B, p. 258)*
Well, it’s not like we (public/society) weren’t warned, and it’s absurd at this point for the public not to hold politicians responsible - they are masters at blowing smoke but they can’t wriggle out of THIS mess.
Who wants to explain (gently) to Grandma, that while the “trust fund” monies are counted as debt, there is no legal requirement that they be paid out? That’s right boys and girls - your foreign lenders are first in line.
Of course, so were GM bondholders, and we saw how _that_ turned out.
But this “feature” of the social security program has been known for a long time - and so at least we get to see the pols squirm and try and explain how and why they spent the monies ostensibly set aside for the most vulnerable, so that they don’t starve or be set out in the streets.
The BS meter is pegged with all the rhetoric out of Washington, good luck with that guys.
‘In itself it is incapable chemically of neutralizing hydrochloric acid.”
I most certainly agree, which is why I have refused to try and conquer heartburn with vinegar, lol. I’ve used acetic acid in a few aplications over the years, and have been quite skeptical of drinking it to alleviate stomach pain, no matter how diluted, and no matter how ardent the supporters are!
“Principle of Offset”
Sounds like a plan. Say, with all this talk of government shutdowns and checks not going out, do you suppose the IRS will shut down as well?
My dad has been retired for about 10 years now. He was fortunate/blessed/wise enough to have other investments besides social security (because he always knew it was supposed to SUPPLEMENT on’es retirement plan, not replace it). It took 3 years of talking with him before he finally realized that the social security is ending, with his acceptance or not.
IT’s funny, because people also ignore that once upon a time, social security contributions were also lower and limited, and you only had to pay in so much. Later it began to be paid on all income. Throughout my younger days, dad mentioned several times, how he didn’t see how it could add up, and he could pay in 30-40 years at very small amount, and somehow be supposed (I say “supposed” because it never would nor should have worked that way, but was purported to) get out another 20-30 years of a livable income.
It’s hard, but I think the non entitled seniors already know that social security doesn’t work (and thus prepared accordingly, and knew it was to be supplemental at best). However, a lot of other either were naieve enough to believe the political snake oil (they’re gifted liars), or simply were lazy (laziness was refined millenia ago, and is not new), hoping the “next guy” would pay for their ease.
It’s sad because a lot of good people paid into a corrupt, unworkable system, some by choice, many by being forced. The fact remains that they (those forced to pay), DID NOT stand up when they should have, before the funds were raided, and the system so established. Now, if they have ANY honor, they’ll work with the next generation to abolish this idiocy and not try to force them to pay for it. Thankfully, my dad has seen the light, he’d rather have no social security and give his posterity a chance (by choice), than try to force his children grandchildren and greatgrandchildren (one so far) to pay his generations debts (with foreign creditors’ loans), until the system collapses.
For those that understand there is no money, but still want the productive to support them, they feel entitled and deserve nothing. For those who think there is money, they need to get a clue. And for those who acknowledge their wrong in not fighting with all they had to abolish the socialism (or those who did, but were unsuccessful), and support that fight anew, may they receive more charity than they have room to receive.
SS is a pay as you go program. Here is how it works. The SSTF collects the revenue from the payroll tax (revenue) and pays out benefits. Any funds leftover, i.e., "surplus" is put into the General Fund and the Treasury issues non-market, interest bearing T-bills in the amount of the "surplus," and deposits it into the trust fund. There is about $2.6 trillion IOUs in the SSTF. The SSTF is part of the $14.3 trillion national debt and held under "Intragovernmental Holdings."
Even if the trust funds contained real assets, SS would not be solvent. In 1950 there were 16 workers for every retiree; today, there are 3.3; and by 2030 there will be two. And by 2030, one in every five residents of this country will be 65 or older, twice what it is now. The revenue will not be enough to pay everyone's benefits unless you raise taxes or reduce benefits or do both.
SS is a Ponzi scheme. Those at the top of the pyramid are receiving far more than they paid in. Why Social Security is a Ponzi Scheme--
From the 2010 Trustees Report
"Social Security expenditures are expected to exceed tax receipts this year for the first time since 1983. The projected deficit of $41 billion this year (excluding interest income) is attributable to the recession and to an expected $25 billion downward adjustment to 2010 income that corrects for excess payroll tax revenue credited to the trust funds in earlier years. This deficit is expected to shrink substantially for 2011 and to return to small surpluses for years 2012-2014 due to the improving economy. After 2014 deficits are expected to grow rapidly as the baby boom generation’s retirement causes the number of beneficiaries to grow substantially more rapidly than the number of covered workers. The annual deficits will be made up by redeeming trust fund assets in amounts less than interest earnings through 2024, and then by redeeming trust fund assets until reserves are exhausted in 2037, at which point tax income would be sufficient to pay about 75 percent of scheduled benefits through 2084."
So there’s your admission that this scheme has run its course, and even an admission that without legislative changes, people will be getting less than they thought.
Some people say, “There’s no problem here – just raise taxes further until we get the money that we need.” But what started at 2% has now become 12.4% when both the employee’s and the employer’s portions are considered. And keep in mind that the half paid by the employer represents monies that by definition can’t be paid to the employees or investors in the form of additional wages and/or returns. As the saying goes, corporations don’t pay taxes. People pay taxes.
Furthermore, the idea that we can just raise taxes and hit some projected revenue increase is fatally flawed by static analysis — the idea that people don’t respond to incentives and penalties. Tax increases routinely fail to yield the originally projected revenue. Lastly, you have to be willing to legislatively seize a lot of property that just doesn’t belong to you (regardless of what Michael Moore might say)."
I might add that SCOTUS has ruled, Flemming vs Nestor, that once your contributions are deposited into SS, they no longer belong to you. The government can do whatever it wants with them.
And don't get me started with Medicare, which receives 51% of its current funding from the General Fund and that number is growing. And people on Medicare get three times what the contributed out of the program. The welfare state is imploding. It has made over $60 trillion worth of promises it can't keep.
And they shouldn't be, unless they were the very same individuals that conspired with public employees, and against taxpayers, by instituting unreasonable and possibly dirty pension arrangements.
The just solution would be to void these dirty pension deals, arrest the politicians and union heads that negotiated them, and allow them to escape long prison sentences only by forfeiting all financial and material assets they hold. These proceeds can go to partially compensate would-be pensioners that sadly believed the fairy tale they were told.
The problem with that solution is that grandma's check collectively is a hundred or two times as much as all foreign aid.
The real problem is that, for 80 years, grandmas and grampas have been trained to expect to be cared for, rather than having been expected to save. Social Security planted the seeds of our cultural and moral decline that looks to be doing us in as a great nation. Thanks for being so short sighted, FDR.
All right you two, heartburn is caused by acid being where it’s not supposed to be. I take simethicone pills now and never need to return to the acid blockers I took for years. I assume the gas forced the acids into the edophagus.
This leads to two germaine points:
Our economic misery is caused by money being where it’s not supposed to be- in the government’s hands instead of the workers and producers.
And: when it comes to your stomach, well, everything else is secondary.
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