Bill O'Reilly gets hostile to the Gospel

http://www.cbPatriot.com ^ | Publius321

[editor-surveyor]

>> “O’Reilly is a Christian In Name Only. Anyone that describes a person as “leading a good life” in the context of salvation clearly doesn’t know the gospel.” <<

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That is how many catholics believe that one is saved. They follow a false gospel of salvation by works rather than works because of salvation.

[editor-surveyor]

I was sort of suspecting that you were trying to be funny; never thought of the phone.

[SupplySider]

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

I agree with much of what you wrote. But I don't see why the Thai or the Egyptian deserve eternal torment for sincerely turning to God in the best way they know according to their family, culture, and traditions.

Most folks born in, say, New Delhi, are Hindus. They may be devout. Are they rebels against God by omitting the name of Jesus from their prayers? I don't think so.

Even if they are, why eternal punishment? If God is loving why wouldn't repentance after a trillion years in hell suffice?

[Arthur McGowan]

C.S. Lewis dealt with this question this way:

Regarding those who have never heard of Jesus Christ, we have no revelation from Christ about their salvation—except that God can save anyone he chooses.

Regarding those who say, “I can be a good person and not accept Jesus Christ,” once you DO know who Jesus Christ is, if you do not accept Him, you cease to BE a good person.

[SupplySider]

Thank you for the scripture citation. I've been pondering it for some time.

In my example of the Thai and the Egyptian, I was assuming that both had heard the gospel, but remained with their own faiths. In today's world, I think most people have heard Jesus's message. I just don't think those from different parts of the world, and from different times, who approach God sincerely by their best judgement but according to non-Christian traditions are, as a group, less deserving then those in cultures where Christianity is popular.

If I was born in Tibet, I'd be a Buddhist. I'd probably go with that after reading the bible. But not out of rejection of God. If I was born in Georgia, USA or East Europe, I'd likely be a Christian. Are those folks just lucky?

[SupplySider]

You make a great point. Certainly we all fall short in different ways. I appreciate the point that good works don't suffice, that one must turn to God for salvation by His grace.

In my example, all three men turned to God in their own ways. Does it really matter if the prayers use words with some different syllables? The man praising Jehovah is saved, the man praising Allah or Shiva is damned?

[SupplySider]

Thank you, Vor Lady, I will read it.

[Arthur McGowan]

Instead of telling Catholics what Protestant polemicists say Catholics believe, how about looking up the matter in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, and finding out what the Catholic Church teaches?

[Bigtigermike]

Man will not be judge for what he or she doesn’t know, but man will be judge for what he or she does know!

A man that walks into a lighted room and deliberately closes his eyes can not claim he doesn’t see, he chose not to see.

[piytar]

Agreed. Did you think I felt otherwise? We’re ALL failed sinners undeserving of Heaven. But His blood washes us clean.

Again, did you think I felt otherwise?

[Past Your Eyes]

That’s an insult to Stooges everywhere.

[RoadTest]

It’s not Catholic doctrine - it’s God’s doctrine.

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” -John 14:6

[RoadTest]

Good suggestion! It’s all there.

[RoadTest]

You are right!

[piytar]

Correct re Jesus. I was referring to the Catholic doctrine that people who don’t have an opportunity to accept Him becasuse they never heard of Him aren’t d@mned to Hell. IOW, Christ must provide some mechanism - who knows what - to give everyone a chance to accept Him.

[OneVike]

I come to this discussion a day late, but I felt the need to step in and share what the Lord has spoken to my heart about this issue. Forgive me if I get too long on this, but bear with me please.

You wrote to BuckeyeTexan,

In my example of the Thai and the Egyptian, I was assuming that both had heard the gospel, but remained with their own faiths.

I'll begin by saying that anyone who hears the Word, and the Word is God who came into the world in the Person of Christ, and does not accept the Word but rather stays in their ignorance will be damned to hell. It may seem cruel, but when you consider that God has given his only begotten Son as a blood sacrifice so that anyone who believes and confesses that He is Lord will be saved, it is not cruel but more than fair. Who else would take a life of a loved one so that another can be forgiven, but a very loving and very uncruel God.

SupplySider, when you consider that the scenario you offer has already taken place in the form of the Jews, it should all make perfect sense to you. The Jews were the Egyptians and Thai's in your scenario. They knew who God was, and they even looked forward to the Messiah. Yet, when He came in person, they rejected Him and stayed in their faith, which in essence is the written law of Moses.

The same as the Egyptians and Thai's in your scenario who heard the good news (the Gospel) and rejected it by staying true to their faith, which is in essence staying loyal to a false god over the true God. The Jews stayed true to God, but by not accepting Him when He came in person they rejected the true God.(In their case they not just rejected Him, but they murdered Him. And how blessed we are that they did). So regardless of how good and pure the world thought they were, they destined themselves to burn in the lake of fire which is the second death.

Jesus tells us that, He is the Way, the Truth, and the Light, and that no one can enter the presence of God except through Him. With out turning away from your old ways, which includes your old faith, and follow Christ, you will be led to hell by a lie, because only the truth will get you into heaven, and the Truth is Christ.

Now if they lived their whole life and never heard of the name of Jesus, and thus were never given the chance to accept His sacrifice and be saved, then we can fall back on the fact that God speaks to men's hearts. After all, no one told Abraham about the true God. It was God Himself who spoke to Abraham who was still known as Abram. Remember Abram's father, Tarah, was a follower of false gods according to Joshua 24:2, and according to the Rabbinic literature, Midrash Rabbah, Terah was an idol maker who made a living by selling odols of false gods. However, his own son Abram, had a heart for the True God, and God spoke to him.

In the same manner, God speaks to all men's hearts, it is up to us to listen. Like Job, who live before or at the same time as Abram, but in a different land. Lot knew the true God and was saved because he was a good man in the eyes of God. If the Thai's and Egyptians you speak of never heard of the name of Christ they would have been better off. Once you hear and reject the news their is no excuse.

Through Isaiah, God tells us,

For thus says the High and Lofty One Who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy: "I dwell in the high and holy place, With him who has a contrite and humble spirit, To revive the spirit of the humble, And to revive the heart of the contrite ones. Isaiah 57:15

It is the same thing that we learn about in Ecclesiastes

He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also He has put eternity in their hearts, except that no one can find out the work that God does from beginning to end. Ecclesiastes 3:11

Allow me to offer an excellent book for you to read that would help understand the way God has spoken to men's hearts throughout history, long before the name of Christ or His Gospel was introduced to them. It is titled, "Eternity in Their Hearts", by Don Richardson. It has 28 case histories of places around the world where men were introduced to God long before any man came by to speak to them about Him.

The book jumps right into the incredible story behind Paul's discovery of that "altar to an unknown God" in Athens that is written about in the book of Acts. (Acts 17:16-17:34) it has many very eye opening examples of God speaking the the hearts of men in native tribes all over the world, who have themselves erected honored places of refuge and even a "scapeboat" instead of a "scapegoat". These ancient tribal festivals, superstitions, and even many of their everyday habits have been used by missionaries to reach the natives in a way to help them understand and accept the true God and the Gospel of Christ.

Sorry for such a long reply to your inquiry, but I felt the need to share with you that which God spoke to my heart.

May God bless you and yours,

OneVike (Chuck Wolk)

[BuckeyeTexan]

Thank you for the thoughtful post. I believe we are in agreement.

Those who do not have the law are judged apart from the law. God made his glory known throughout all creation so that no one has an excuse to ignore that there is a creator and that He is God. God has written His laws on the hearts and in the minds of men. We know by nature what is right and what is wrong. If we don’t have the law (which Jesus fulfilled), we are judged by how we keep the law through our thoughts and actions.

No Christian, Catholic, or Jew will be held righteous in God’s sight without accepting Jesus Christ. No one who has heard the Gospel will be held righteous in God’s sight without accepting Jesus Christ. But those who have not heard the Gospel but keep the law by the nature of what God wrote on their hearts and minds will be held righteous in God’s sight. (Romans 2:12-13)

Revelation tells us that we will be judged according to our works as they’re recorded in the books and that anyone whose name is not found in the Lamb’s (Jesus’) book of life will be cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death. Our name must be written in the Lamb’s book of life in order to receive eternal life and we literally cannot be presented righteous unto God the Father but through Jesus Christ with his book of life.

Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

Revelation 21:27
Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

As with other concepts, there are many interpretations of the verses quoted on this thread. Some will agree; some will disagree. We are instructed to seek out our faith with fear and trembling. We are each responsible for our own faith and beliefs. God speaks to each of us and if we’re listening, we’ll hear him. Study and pray always.

[publius321]

Chuck! I thought “Love Wins” means that nobody goes to Hades? That’s what Biblical scholar Rob Bell tells us.

Just kidding. That tragedy is no laughing matter. People will gather teachers onto themselves to have their “ears tickled”.

Thank you for your cogent and well written post.

[terycarl]

That is how many catholics believe that one is saved. They follow a false gospel of salvation by works rather than works because of salvation

no they don't....but they do read James where he says something like faith without works is meaningless...If your neighbor is cold, give him a jacket, don't tell him to have faith that God will warm him up. Catholics not only believe that salvation is a gift from God through Jesus, but we also believe that we are free to refuse that gift if we so choose. Catholics believe that by belonging to the only church which Jesus Himself founded, and by doing good works, we are telling God that we do not reject His free gift of salvation.....He did say, as He founded the Catholic church, that He would be with her from now until the end of time......Martin luther didn't promise that, did he???

[OneVike]

Welcome,

Rob Bell will find out soon enough (in the scope of things) that if he does not repent then the truth will send him to a place where love is completely removed.

God bless and thanks for the compliment.