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1 posted on 10/08/2010 12:37:29 PM PDT by jazusamo
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To: jazusamo

I’m not sure I understand why this woman’s story is not being taken as truthful. I heard Mike Gallagher on his show today and he was really taking a strong position that this story “smells,” with questions being raised about why the wife was not injured/attacked. Meanwhile, trying to explain in any logical manner why criminals do what they do and how they do it is often futile, especially where drugs are involved.


2 posted on 10/08/2010 12:41:31 PM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: jazusamo

Why would we believe an American citizen when the Mexican government is so much more believable.


3 posted on 10/08/2010 12:46:09 PM PDT by Carley (For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.)
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To: jazusamo

If only we could un-hang her.


10 posted on 10/08/2010 12:54:51 PM PDT by McGruff (I Love the Smell of Desperation in the Morning. Smells like Victory!)
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To: jazusamo

If there’d never been incidents involving these pirates in the past.........then yeah it would be hard to believe.

They exist and they are armed criminals and they go after anyone.What she says is completely believable and shock not to mention trauma is why her story has a tendency to change.

It is highly unlikely she is ever faced anything like that in her life.There is a lot of people here who think this just sounds like some criminal alibi.

It is why they have a hard time believing her,my own belief is that what she described is exactly what would happen if an American citizen ran into people like that and decided not to “cooperate”.


18 posted on 10/08/2010 1:25:36 PM PDT by Del Rapier
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To: jazusamo; All

June, 2010

Bomb plot alert at Falcon Dam

[snip]An alleged plot by a Mexican drug cartel to blow up a dam along the Texas border — and unleash billions of gallons of water into a region with millions of residents — sent American police, federal agents and local disaster officials scrambling last month to thwart such an attack, authorities confirmed Wednesday.

Whether the cartel, which is known to have stolen bulk quantities of gunpowder and dynamite, could have taken down the five-mile-long Falcon Dam may never be known.

But it may have been derailed by a stepped-up presence by the Mexican military, acting in part on intelligence from the U.S. government, sources said.

The warning was based on what the federal government contends were “serious and reliable sources” and prompted the Homeland Security Department to sound the alarm to first responders all along the South Texas-Mexico border.

Mexico’s Zeta cartel was planning to destroy the dam

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local_news/bomb_plot_alert_at_falcon_dam_95481059.html


20 posted on 10/08/2010 1:49:00 PM PDT by AuntB (Illegal immigration is simply more "share the wealth" socialism and a CRIME not a race!)
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To: jazusamo
Not saying that the lady's lying, but I note that the article is shy of a few crucial facts.

Zapata County Sheriff Sigifredo Gonzalez says that he has a witness who corroborates Tiffany Hartley’s story. That witness, whose identity is being concealed out of safety concerns, claims that when Hartley came off the lake on her jet ski, she was being chased by men in a boat and that she was sobbing and frantic.

When did this witness come forward? Right away, or after the news coverage started?

Zapata County’s sheriff Sigifredo Gonzalez has told CBS News he has blood evidence from the lifevest of Tiffany Hartley

Is this new, or have they had the vest and been working the blood angle all along?

Heck, maybe she's telling the truth. But if she's not ... well, it's just such a convenient story....

31 posted on 10/08/2010 2:06:31 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: jazusamo

The big major question here is how much was his life insurance worth.

Nothing can move forward until that issue is answered.


36 posted on 10/08/2010 2:39:03 PM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: jazusamo

This is a response I posted to an opinion piece yesterday. It is written in response to “Wendy,” the author, but it contains rebuttals of most of the points the naysayers bring up.

“Like gangs on land, punks on water don’t kill randomly. They kill for money, they kill for revenge, they kill when drug deals go bad - and they sometimes kill by accident as when a kid gets caught in the crossfire of a shootout between rivals. But they don’t just walk around town shooting people in the head. “

Really? What town does Wendy live in? I think I’ll move there.

The equivalent on land is driving around in a nice car...with the added dimension of the criminal desiring not only its monetary value, but also its utility to the thieves/pirates. Now...do “gangs” kill for vehicles? Ever heard of a carjacking?

I can see how a jetski, especially a “top of the line” model as described by the husband’s mother would be a valuable target for PIRATES. They are fast, they are quiet, they are nimble, they are fuel efficient, and they are hard to spot. One would be absolutely perfect for 3 men to use to rob the presumably well off Americans who live on the lake. So for those who keep asking “why would pirates rob people on jetskis,” the jetski alone could easily be the answer. If we had roving bands of land pirates working the nation’s interstate system, would you question why fast cars were being especially targeted? Would you say...no land pirate would ever target some guy in a corvette, I mean, it’s only a two seater.

“First, there is no evidence, other than Tiffany’s word, that her husband was even on the water at all, much less in a jet ski getting shot in the head.”

Nice. Wendy just called her a liar...based on Wendy’s word since she admits the lack of evidence. Very classy. Is the jetski missing? I’d say that’s certainly circumstantial evidence that her husband was on the water. It proves nothing, since any adult would hopefully be smart enough to dispose of the jetski...but disposing of the jetski brings up a whole new set of problems. But it is something that should interest the police and no doubt already has. I wonder, does Wendy know if the jetski is indeed missing?

“And if they DID do that in this case, which is possible in theory, it makes no sense that they managed such a precise execution in the skull of a man while he was zipping along on a jet ski, but somehow couldn’t even graze the jet ski of the guy’s wife even as she was stopped, as she said she was, trying to lift her husband’s body from the water.”

Strange things happen quite often when people start shooting at each other. Even stranger things happen if the people shooting happen to be skilled shooters. According to Tiffany, there were 3 boats attacking them. Wendy’s assumption it would take a “sharpshooter” to make the shot shows her ignorance. It would take a hell of a shot. Someone like a SEAL, who actually practices shooting from moving vessels at moving targets. If it isn’t something you have as part of your skillset, I’d wager my money on 3 to 12 drunk Mexican pirates making the shot before you did...only because they’d be firing wildly and be relying mostly on luck. Also, Tiffany claims that the pirates didn’t shoot at her, but came up to her and held (I believe) a pistol to her head. Some question why they wouldn’t kill her...without being crude about I’d suggest that a pirate/bandit/criminal would be inclined to capture a woman alive because he has other thoughts on her potential value.

“Maybe the pirates are sharpshooters — but they sure can’t be sharpshooters ONLY if they’re aiming at husbands. She says she doesn’t know why she was spared. That makes two of us — I mean — two million of us. Random killers don’t develop a conscience in the middle of an execution.”

This is some really bad reasoning. Perhaps they had a reason not to want to kill the young woman? Perhaps her husband was hit only because freakish things happen when men starting emptying rifles at other men? Two million of you? Nice. A former prosecutor executing the dreaded argumentum ad populum.

“It’s possible Tiffany is telling the truth, but as a matter of simple common sense it just doesn’t ring true. And while lots of people are in a justifiable anti-Mexico mindset for a host of reasons related to illegal immigration, drug cartels, etc., let’s not let a pretty little housewife exploit our political sentiments to dupe us into believing outright absurdities.”

Now nice of you to allow that Tiffany is telling the truth, Wendy. Wendy slips and reveals her true agenda here...she’s worried about bad press for Mexico and her beloved illegals.

“But the simple truth is, when a wife or husband dies or goes missing in suspicious circumstances, the spouse SHOULD be the key suspect because they’re almost always responsible. Unless and until they can be ruled out — they should be ruled in — and Tiffany Hartley has yet to be ruled out.”

I agree completely. But it isn’t your job, Wendy, as part of a for profit media conglomerate. Being paid to trash a woman who MIGHT have just lost her husband makes you a type of mercenary whore. That responsibility lies with the local officials. I find this opinion piece to be in poor taste, considering the admitted lack of evidence, and how recent the events in question were. It smacks of tabloidism.

I don’t have a dog in this fight other than the desire to correct what I see as logical fallacies. If Tiffany is responsible, she has to be one of the most psychotic criminals in history. There are a hell of a lot of ways to off your mate that don’t involve TV cameras, a witness, appeals to the POTUS, Mexican pirates, and jetskis. I’m inclined to believe her until further evidence presents itself because I know that criminals, let alone pirates, don’t live by our rules.


41 posted on 10/08/2010 4:57:58 PM PDT by Spike Knotts
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To: jazusamo

I’ll add that I’m seriously irritated at all these hispanic democrat politicians from Texas who are throwing this woman under the bus and trying to say how wonderful the Mexican response to this has been.


46 posted on 10/09/2010 8:06:31 PM PDT by Yet_Again
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