Posted on 04/08/2009 10:45:53 AM PDT by DrGop0821
Rudy Giuliani discusses attacks on Christianity by both Newsweek and President Obama.
Could anyone imagine if Newsweek had condemned Islam? Oh, right... that would never happen.
(Excerpt) Read more at conservativexpress.blogspot.com ...
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But I thought that Rudy was an athiest liberal who didn’t deserve our vote...
Heard that quite a bit around these parts not too long ago. Don't forget 'baby killer' and 'gun grabber'.
Despite his obvious shortcomings, Rudy would have been a much better GOP candidate than McCain, and would no doubt have given Zero a run for his money. It's a shame his primary campaign strategy was such a disaster.
“Buck - I do not think anyone on this thread called Rudy an atheist. What we did say is - “He is not pro-life and is shaky on the Marriage Amendment. “
Unfortunately, the aspersions went far beyond that. Here, Rudy endured far more gratuitous abuse than Sarah Palin did at the hands of the liberal media during the campaign. That gave us McCain, who begat BHO. Rudy could have won. Admittedly, he did make campaign mistakes, but those could have been overcome by support from the single issue voters who vehemently (and wrongly) opposed him.
What "single issue" are you referring to?
• Gun control?• Abortion?
• Gay rights?
• McCain Feingold?
• Immigration?
• Being surrounded by a bunch of crooks?
• Other? (please identify)
You think that those who accept the Republican platform on such issues "wrongly" opposed Giuliani when he took the opposite stance on all of them?
He would have gotten creamed. Obama would have hung Bernie Kerik around his neck, and the base would have stayed home. Rudy didn't have a single issue for conservatives to oppose him. He had a fistful, as calcowgirl noted.
Rudy got us McCain. He set up the NY and NJ primaries to be winner-take-all, and when Rudy fell flat in Florida, he backed McCain who gained an insurmountable lead on Super Tuesday largely because of those two primaries.
It just amazed me that two years of education did so little. I happened upon a different thread last night about the GOP that mentioned Giuliani so I clicked on the keyword and read a few more. This thread is similar to others I read. Blog posts idolizing the gun-grabbing mayor have found their way back on FR; Michael Steele is quick to add the gay-flag-waving mayor’s name to each utterance of his list of presidential candidates; “Rudy is a fiscal conservative” and other myths fly off the keyborads of several posters; and here conservatives are told they “wrongly” opposed the AGW-believing autocrat and are just “single issue voters.”
It boggles the mind.
He was to the left of McCain, for crying out loud.
BS. Rudy would have been a true wartime president and that’s what we need. All the single issues are peacetime luxuries and I would have been happy to vote for Rudy. McCain doesn’t know what he is, Rudy knows that there are no other issues if we lose this war on terror.
He’s now in the news as a potential candidate for NY Governor and many freepers appear to have adopted the Rudy-love.
http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/giuliani/index
Giuliani would be Schwarzenegger-of-the-East, IMO.
Yeah, he made such a stellar recommendation to Bush to nominate Kerick for head of DHS.
All the single issues are peacetime luxuries
Uh, yeah, sure. Gun rights are a luxury? Last I checked, it was an enumerated right. Rudy was an authoritarian control freak as mayor when it came to gun rights.
Pro-life is a luxury? Easy enough to say if you've already been born, I guess.
It wasn't a single issue with Rudy. It was a multitude of issues.
McCain doesn’t know what he is, Rudy knows that there are no other issues if we lose this war on terror.
McCain at least had a clue and a spine about the surge. Rudy was in politics for himself, as witness by his idiotic promotion of Kerick and his own petty ethical problems.
Since NYC was the crime capitol of the country and also a Democrat city (so the public were left-wingers with no guns to use in self defense), Rudy used existing gun laws to strip the bad guys of their weapons and enhance their prison time. Working in the Reagan justice department was a pretty good indicator of his dedication to law and order.
I have admired him since the day he actually closed down the New York City museum because of the "Dung Madonna" painting and refused to reopen it until the feds made him.
He is personally against abortion and as a mayor his only power over it was to increase the outreach to unwed mothers and encourage adoption. Adoptions and orphanages swelled under him and abortions dropped. Isn't that the idea?
He wasn't Governor. He was Mayor. He had to administer the laws of the city council. That was his job.
The press and the media attacked him everyday until 9/11 and he spit in their eyes by having a daily...not monthly, not weekly, but daily press conferences. He never backed down and he never tried to win their approval (like McCain).
He's a tough guy who took no shit from anybody. I thought he would have been a great president and I'm sorry he didn't get the chance to prove the haters wrong.
AMEN!
It took all of two days for journalists to find a mess of dirt. Yet Rudy never noticed any of it...
He is personally against abortion
Oh, bullcrap, Deb. He got awards from NARAL and spoke at their fundraisers. You should know better than to peddle that level of nonsense on FR.
I presume that comment was about Rudy's gun control efforts.
No one forced Rudy to call for more federal guns laws by politicizing a terrorist attack in 1997.
No one forced Rudy to address an anti-gun rally.
And Rudy worked to revoke CCW permits from long-standing holders who had them for 20 years. The man is an enemy to gun rights.
Let me repeat...Guiliani is personally against abortion...he has said so a thousand times and because he didn't campaign against it doesn't make him pro-abortion and I don't care what NARAL did, he has no reason to lie about it.
Just because you seem to have been co-opted by the Rudy-hating press, that's not my problem and I'm not "peddling" anything so take your snotty attitude and shove it. I'm as pro-gun, pro-life and and anti-illegal immigrant as anyone in the forum and I would have voted for Rudy in a heartbeat.
Considering Kerik has been indicted, I hardly think the concerns are without merit.
and I don't care what NARAL did, he has no reason to lie about it.
NARAL did not force him to come address their conventions. You cannot spin that one away, Deb, it's public record and can be found in a few minutes with a Google search. And he had plenty of reason to lie about it, he had to try to spin away his pro-abort past to have a chance in 2008.
Just because you seem to have been co-opted by the Rudy-hating press, that's not my problem and I'm not "peddling" anything so take your snotty attitude and shove it.
So stating the truth is a snotty attitude. Pretty poor foundation you have there for launching a personal attack, Deb.
Thank you very much for inviting me to say a few words of welcome. This event shows that people of different political parties and different political thinking can unite in support of choice. In doing so, we are upholding a distinguished tradition that began in our city starting with the work of Margaret Sanger and the movement for reproductive freedom that began in the early decades of the 20th century.
As a Republican who supports a woman's right to choose, it is particularly an honor to be here.
Rudy praising Margaret Sanger? And honored to be speaking to NARAL? Cut me a break, Deb. He can claim he is against abortion all he wants. But his actions show that to be nonsense. Talk is cheap.
He did what he had to do to clean up the most dangerous city in the country. I don’t care what you think, he turned New York City into a normal city and before that, with Kerik’s help, he broke the back of organized crime in NYC. And he did it all with the entire NY media hate machine bombing him day after day...remember “It’s Guiliani time!” supposedly said by an NYPD officer as he beat up a black guy? The guy had to admit he lied, but the press played it to the hilt for as long as they could. It’s even in a movie (I forget which one) about NYC.
Sounds like you are the single issue voter.
And a liberal, to boot!
So doing this was part of cleaning up NYC?
You are gonna pull a muscle at this rate, as much as you are contorting yourself to spin this.
For those who forget:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1912477/posts
Rudy Giuliani - Life Long Liberal
He answered everyone of these questions day after day during the campaign and he never wavered. I believed him. You believe the same press that spent 8 years trashing Bush, before that Clarence Thomas and every other Republican of note.
I'm not here to defend him, I'm defending my confidence in him...even though Duncan Hunter was my guy.
You didn't answer my question about the Kerik "dirt" and the proof of his idiocy or criminality. Enough.
Say what? Addressing a Handgun Control Inc rally was part of cleaning up NYC? You can't be serious, Deb. HGI (now rolled into the Brady Center) was one of the leading enemies of gun rights in this country. And Rudy was their strong ally. It had NOTHING to do with cleaning up New York and you know it. It was all about Rudy's agenda. And my comment to you about contortionism stands - you just reinforced it.
In addition, Rudy revoked permits from hundreds of long-standing NYC conceal-carry permit holders. Are you implying that revoking CCW from valid, rigorously screened holders was required to clean up NYC? You cannot possibly be serious, or you are just in full spin mode, and have gotten yourself so dizzy that you are in agreement with the Brady Center on gun control - that it's effective in fighting crime.
You didn't answer my question about the Kerik "dirt" and the proof of his idiocy or criminality
I guess you missed my reply where I factually noted that Kerik was indicted.
Kerik himself did:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/06/30/former_nypd_chief_kerik_pleads_guilty_to_accepting_gifts/
NEW YORK --Former police commissioner Bernard Kerik, whose rise from beat cop to nominee for Homeland Security head was derailed by ethics questions, dodged prison Friday in a plea bargain by admitting he took $165,000 in gifts from a company attempting to do business with the city.
-------------
Are you really sure you want to continue this line of debate? None of the facts are in your favor, and pounding on the table really doesn't have much impact on FR any longer.
Great post, Deb. This is old-style FR posting, well documented and short on rhetoric.
I wonder if “true conservatism” does not include national security as a top priority, especially post-9/11. Looking at some of the posting here, I am led to believe that some actually oppose our safety and security as a sovereign nation.
“I know many people argue that keeping and bearing arms is federally guaranteed right as stated in the Second Amendment of the Constitution. But even in the Second Amendment, it refers to firearms in the context of a well regulated militia, and well regulated is what we're trying to accomplish.”--Mayor Rudy Giuliani, speaking to the Citizen’s Crime Commission
And totally lacking in factual foundation, as I have subsequently documented.
Hmmm. Rudy pushed a corrupt crony for the most important counterterrorism position in the country. Against the advice of experts, he sited the city's Office of Emergency Management center in 7 WTC, where it became unusable during 9-11. And in response to a small terrorist attack in 1997, he politicized the event to call for more gun control laws.
Some of us can push for national security while still fighting for our rights and not apologizing for corruption.
Oh, so Kerik was "indicted"? I know. So was Tom Delay. Nice try, but puking up lunch from the NY Times isn't evidence.
The question was...what was the Kerik "dirt" you claimed and what was the proof? I read most of the charges had been dropped or lessened. No doubt you'll have something from the Huffington Post as evidence.
Did you live in New York City before and after Rudy became mayor? I think anyone who did and who can give personal testimony is speaking authentically.
Interesting how you and another poster have hijacked this thread off topic.
Fred was not the one who pushed for the New York and New Jersey primaries to be winner-take-all. That was Rudy. And when Rudy dropped out after Florida, he endorsed McCain and McCain won those primaries for 153 delegates, giving him an overwhelming win on Super Tuesday. You seem to have a very hard time with facts, but we’ve come to expect that from Rudy apologists.
I am rebutting claims that Rudy was against abortion. He was as pro-choice as they come. And it is the hallmark of cafeteria conservatives that they acquiesce to Rudy's gun grabbing as somehow needed to fight crime when everything conservatives stand for, along with the facts, indicates otherwise.
Interesting how you and another poster have hijacked this thread off topic.
I wasn't the one who raised Rudy in 2008. Don't blame me. But go ahead, spew nonsense when you can't rebut the facts. We got used to that in 2007 and 2008, and we're well-equipped to retort every last strawman, because we saw them all a hundred times before.
Ah, so if a politician believes what he does is necessary, who cares about the Constitution? THAT WAS MY CORE PROBLEM WITH RUDY ALL ALONG. And the apologist tendencies of his supporters.
Oh, so Kerik was "indicted"? I know. So was Tom Delay. Nice try, but puking up lunch from the NY Times isn't evidence.
He pled guilty. Keep reading down-thread.
Your crow is ready - Kerik pled guilty. Do you take it with A-1 or hot sauce?
Remind me again. Who was your candidate in the primaries last year?
Rudy Discussed Newsweek's War on Christianity During Holy Week?
So tell me again what does that have to do with fact that McCain locked up 153 delegates in NY and NJ that Rudy had lined up for himself?
:-)
I wasn’t the one who raised these topics on the thread. But somehow, to the Rudy apologists, it’s my fault for calling out clear lies made by them? Absurd. But we’ve gotten used to that from the Rudy crowd. They can rationalize anything to support their guy.
I didn't bring in the topic. But, then again, sticking to facts was never the strong suite of the Rudy boosters.
And you still haven't answered the question as to what the Kerik "dirt" was and what was the proof? You don't seem to be able to do anything but keep calling him "corrupt". How cowardly and pathetic. Paging your little friends to come over and hold your hand is really limp-wristed.
"Their guy?"
Deb was a Duncan Hunter supporter. I was a Fred Thompson supporter. I would have preferred Rudy to McCain myself, and would have voted for him against Barack Obama if he'd been the nominee...because I realized from the outset what a dangerous man Obama was.
They can rationalize anything
A lot of petulant "conservatives" are still attempting to rationalize their third-party votes and non-votes.
They helped elect the only Communist President we've ever had.
Like heck, you are rationalizing away his gun-grabbing efforts, with 'logic' that could be lifted from a Brady Center press release. You can't even keep your bullcrap straight any longer.
And you still haven't answered the question as to what the Kerik "dirt" was and what was the proof? You don't seem to be able to do anything but keep calling him "corrupt".
He pled guilty to corruption, Deb. Case closed.
How cowardly and pathetic.
What is pathetic is having you call me such after I showed that Kerik pled guilty - maybe you could read post 28 instead of just reflexively write your baseless counterattacks.
Paging your little friends to come over and hold your hand is really limp-wristed.
It's also pathetic to lie about me. Please show where I have pinged anyone on this thread other than those involved in the response.
You're a sorry shell of your former self, Deb - resorting to lies and baseless attacks. Won't bother wasting any more time on ya, toodles.
Yep. He accepted a deal from the Bronx district attorney’s office. But he is still facing federal corruption charges including tax fraud and mail fraud.
Other than that, and his ties to organized crime, he's a model citizen. ;-)
Go ahead, coward. Run away. Unfortunately you never had anything to put in your "shell".
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