THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AK'S/AR'S/ AND NAGANTS

Transsylvania Phoenix ^

[Eagle Eye]

Bwahahahaaaaa....

Moisin Nagant!

I bought two plus ammo for $80.

Took the best parts to make one.

Took it out the the range and wrapped a heavy towel around the bolt and held it away from my face for the first couple rounds cuz I didn’t yet trust it.

Each time it fires the entire firing line stops shooting and looks over due to the blast.

I’m good for about half dozen rounds then it aint fun no more.

[nina0113]

Thanks - they are about an inch deep in soviet-cosmoline. I’m figuring a whole afternoon to clean the guns, then another couple of hours to clean up after cleaning the guns, which is time I just don’t have right now. The seller recommended Simple Green, what do youall think?

[blackie]

Thanks Joe, a fun read! ;)

[smokingfrog]

Since the election, I think the price on the Mosin Nagant has gone up to $69.95

[pallis]

“That’s a fantastic training tool.”

Yeap! Get the young people away from the bench, and make them shoot standing, with a shooting stick, kneeling and prone, ways they will have to shoot while hunting, and these delayed rounds really get them to where they will hold on target.

[Pilsner]

And the Mosin can kill enemies of homeland. The muzzle blast will vaporize green growth within a few feet of the muzzle, and even if you miss, the enemy will be reduced to shouting “WHAT?” to communicate.

I purchased a Mosin-Nagant many years ago (the full length rifle, not the carbine), and showed it to an acquaintance who was a gun dealer. He described it, unkindly, if not unfairly, as a "bolt action club." The receiver looks as if it were cast by a factory that usually makes cast iron skillets, and the bolt rattles, wobbles and clanks as you operate it, in stark contrast to the fine steel and silky smooth bolt of the Mauser I use for deer hunting.

Of course, as my gun dealer friend also pointed out, the Mosin-Nagant was designed so that you can bury it in the mud for a year, then "clean" it by holding it by the muzzle and beating it against a handy tree or boulder, and have it just as operational as it was when it came from the factory.

[Pilsner]

I’ve got some that goes off half a second after the trigger is pulled. It’s great for learning not to flinch.

Time was, you had to be real careful about buying Mosin-Nagant ammo from some guy at the gun show. The Soviets had a vehicle mounted MG, with an unGodly cyclic rate, that used Mosin-Nagant ammo. But the stuff the made for the MG was a lot hotter than regular Mosin-Nagant ammo. If you ever get a box of surplus Mosin-Nagant ammo that causes your bolt to freeze, so that you have to beat it with a ball peen hammer to get the bolt open, STOP using it.

[ArrogantBustard]

Simple Green? Sure ... or some orange oil based stuff. I think that would be better. Use hot water.

Do you know about "Ed's Red"? Mix up a batch ... 1 gallon is a good batch size. After you've gotten the worst of that Russki Gunk off your rifle, use *lots* of Ed's Red to finish cleaning it up.

Prior to beginning this adventure, dress yourself in a grungy T-shirt and worn-out sweat pants.

Clean the rifle. Be sure to disassemble the bolt, and clean inside it. Instructions for this endeavour abound on the internet.

Throw T-shirt and sweatpants in trash.

Take a shower. If you've gotten grease in your hair, Denorex or Selsun Blue (Dandruff Shampoo!) will do a better job of removing it than conventional shampoo. It's OK to ask steve for help. ;')

[Sender]

That is really funny, and mostly true!

Seriously, as to the Moisin Nagant, I have two of them and they are as different as night and day.

The old M44 carbine has a shot-out barrel and is only good for the thrill of the fireball that comes out of it and the recoil, and for the incredible surgical trocar bayonet that also comes out of it. You could defend yourself at short range with it, much like a 38 snubby revolver.

OTOH the Finnish M39 is like a Swiss watch that was carved out of a Soviet boat anchor. It is very accurate and pleasant to shoot, if somewhat long and heavy.

The moral of the story is that the Moisin Nagant is the sort of timeless weapon that is handed down from dead troop to live troop, then from surplus armory to surplus plinker. It is eternal. Only rust and Democrats can ever destroy it. Zero percent plastic, and only requires the occasional cleaning with piss and lubrication with lard. The 1000 meter position of the sight means exactly that.

[BulletBobCo]

Marked

[InABunkerUnderSF]

I don't know what Simple Green is. I just use hot water with a little Windex, followed by a thorough drying and a light coat of gun oil.

It takes 10 or 15 minutes to disassemble, about 30 minutes to clean the various pieces of the bolt (I used a shotgun brush and some patches to clean it out of the bolt head). 20 minutes for the magazine and trigger guard. 20 minutes for the barreled action. 20 more minutes cleaning out the bore until it's nice and shiny, 20-30 minutes for the stock (I had it UNDER the butt plate). And oh yea, don't forget to wipe down the cleaning rod before and after you clean the bore - mine came grungy and got grungier. 10 minutes to reassemble, then it's just a question dumping the toxic waste. I figure it took me about an hour to an hour and a half to get mine clean enough to hold without stuff sticking to my clothes or oozing out of places.

After two cleanings I think I've gotten most of it out of my rifle.

I've heard that mineral spirits works better but I'd be concerned about damaging the finish with something that is basically paint thinner. The inside of my oiler is still coated with cosmoline but I'm not planning on using that except for display purposes so it can stay there. Why they needed to put cosmoline inside of an aluminum oil can is a mystery to me, as is why it needs two caps and what the letters Shta and N (Щ | Н ) embossed in it mean.

I have a feeling that if Soviet cosmoline causes birth defects or cancer or something we are all doomed. Soviet cosmoline may be some kind of last ditch commie chemical warfare plot. Of course my late step father used to claim that Navy cooks fried powdered eggs in US cosmoline in New Guinea during WWII but I don't know if he was serious about that.

[pallis]

So far I haven’t had any problems with this stuff, but I only load one at time, just in case. I do have boxer primed Sellier and Bellot (is that right) that is a little warm, but I haven’t encountered any high pressure signs. Mostly I shoot it out of a couple of Finnish rifles that were made by Sako, but my others, a Russian 91 and 44, and a Romanian 38 (38 is right, isn’t it) seem to handle it okay. My shooting time these days gets used up sighting in for hunting trips, and my old Mosin Nagants, Mausers and FALs stay in the safe. I’m thinking about giving most of them to one of my sons who lives to shoot and buy guns.

[Shooter 2.5]

http://62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinHumor.htm

[2111USMC]

I’m good for about half dozen rounds then it aint fun no more.

Put a cheap slip-on recoil pad on it.

After I put one on mine, I can now shoot 40 to 60 rounds out of it in an afternoon at the range. (Still sometimes get minor bruising but no big deal.)

[Still Thinking]

The Mosin was used by the Russians against the Finns, the Finns against the Russians, the Estonians against the Russians, the Russians against the Russians, and the Russians against the Germans.

Reminds me of the old kids rhyme-song-whatever the hell it is:

Twelve inches makes a ruler
Queen Mary was a ruler
Queen Mary is a ship
The ship sails the sea
The sea has fish
The fish have fins
The Finns fought the Russians
Russians are red
So fire engines are red cause they're always "rushin"

[Still Thinking]

What do you think of Wolf ammo in general? Seems cheap. Would be nice to use it if it’s OK.

[Still Thinking]

OTOH the Finnish M39 is like a Swiss watch that was carved out of a Soviet boat anchor

Very funny line! I must have laughed for like thirty seconds straight.

[El Gato]

(Mosin Nagant)Your rifle's finish is low grade shellac, cosmoline and Olga's toe nails.

It may have once been Olga's rifle, which she killed Two Majors, (one SS), 5 Captains, 10 Lieutenants, and scores of Sergeants and Corporals. She left the privates alone, because they were "Kinda cute".

Mosin Nagant)Recoil is often used to relocated shoulders thrown out by the previous shot.

I've fire one, from a bench, and while the recoil is stiffer than that of the SVT firing the same catridge (and I fired at the same session) , it's not that bad.

I think the rifle I fired did belong Olga, or maybe it was once used by Lyudmila Pavlichenko to make some of her 309 confirmed kills, including 36 confirmed German sniper kills.

[El Gato]

How bad can the recoil really be, if that little slip of gal, and she was small and fairly thin, could kill 309 Germans with it (well maybe few Romanians or other German allies are included in the total) And I find she used the SVT-40, as in the photo, as well as the Nagant.

And she was not a Russian, she was Ukranian. She knew how to shoot before joining the Red Army, having been a member of a shooting club (undoubtedly state sponsored).

Now it happens that I have a sister in law who is ethnically Ukranian, although she lived in a couple of the 'stans before marrying my brother in law and coming here. She can disassemble and reassemble an AK, blindfolded, having learned that in the DOSAAF. (It's predecessor may have been the sponsor of Lyudmila's gun club as well). My SIL is still a pretty good shot, now with handguns as well as rifles. She prefers her bolt action .270, or so I'm told.

My other brother in law is also married to a Ukranian, only she's ethnically Russian and is from Odessa. She wouldn't touch a gun for fear of breaking a nail, from what I'm told, I've never met her. The other I've met, eaten her food (in fact she made me a birthday cake, Russian Style, in '99), and put her daughter (now 16) up for the summer (2008). I needed a club or a Nagant to keep the boys away, and it will be worse next summer. :)

[CarryaBigStick]

Ummm, those prices seem to be way off since Nov. 4th...