Posted on 11/14/2008 11:11:51 PM PST by BonRad
No, liberal judges are. If we were Berg would have prevailed.
I don't really think that anything at this time is going to prevent Obama from taking the oath of office.
All of these efforts should continue, however, as an exposure of his ineligibility at any time will knock his credibility in the sewer. If it is true that he is ineligible, this will be the big LIE that will hamper him, even if he is allowed to stay in office (which he should not be).
But the U.S. Constitution trumps any Thing in a state’s constitutio to the contrary, as it is the supreme law of the land. So what the state says don’t make it so.
That would be a GIANT signal to a lot of people that the Constitution is just a piece of toilet paper de jure instead of de facto. It would be about on par with declaring force majeure on the social contract of government of the USA.
I don’t know......
Wow.
An FBI agent/former co-worker/friend of mine forwarded Debbie Schlussel’s post on that to me yesterday. I was too tired/hurried to really follow the minutiae of the analysis, but got the gist of it I think, with the bogus form numbers fudged in order to reflect bogus dates. Hmmm.
All of this is either a very diabolical and coordinated fraud upon the elctorate by Hussein and his fixers, or we are all a bunch of whackos grasping at straws.
But there are just too many shady and shaky premises upon which Hussein’s entire house is built!
I am reading it. Part of it is troubling (as in “wrong”) in that if Barack Obama were to have been given citizenship not at his own petition of another country, he cannot be held responsible and thus it cannot disqualify him from the presidency. This small part of this suit is worthless.
(To understand this better, if being a citizen of another country would disqualify a President, Iran could have awarded Bush citizenship of Iran 6 years ago and he would have had to step down. We cannot control what another government will do. It’s whether one of our citizens APPLIES for foreign citizenship of his own volition that could affect his USA citizenship.)
i'll cheerfully throw gasoline on that fire. At the time in Indonesia he was a minor, and parents' decisions for them are generally considered to be binding.
I think you missed the point of Lawdoc’s comment.
He’s merely showing how it’s very possible that Hussein was issued a certificate of live birth from Hawaii, even if he wasn’t born there.
He wasn’t saying that the state law makes it possible for him to be considered naturally born there even if he wasn’t; just that his having a COLB from Hawaii doesn’t necessarily make him eleigible for POTUS.
Still reading; just read that his mother relinquished his USA citizenship somehow when he was in Indonesia. Still, I don’t know if that affects him personally. He was a small child. It is true that if one vows officially that he is no longer an American, this CAN cause one to lose American citizenship from the American standpoint. But can one’s MOTHER have that effect?
If a child is born American and the MOTHER vows in another country that her child is giving up his American citizenship, then I could see the courts here successfully arguing that indeed, the child did NOT on his own give up his American citizenship, and thus remains a natural born citizen.
Read my 31. I may be way off base, but if you were a judge in an American court, hearing the case of a natural born citizen whose mother renounced her child’s citizenship when he was too young to have any say, would you honestly rule that the child, now grown, is not American?
This is an odd place but this guy has a good timeline here: http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/pol/917609252.html
Where does it state in the Constitution that one cannot hold in addition to USA citizenship the citizenship of another country? This upsets me that this is included in the lawsuit.
Did I hear someone say class action lawsuit?
Signed,
John Edwards
The US is a signatory to , and has ratified the Hague convention of 1930. That agreement would seem to negate your argument, the relevant portions are reprinted below. A parent or legal guardian CAN make citizenship decisions for minors under their care as do US adoptive parents. In any event Hissein could have restablished his citizenship upon becoming an adult by going to an appropriate State Dept. official and swearing an oath of allegiance to the US. Alas this makes him a naturalized citizen, at which time he has forever forfeited his natural born status.
CONVENTION ON CERTAIN QUESTIONS RELATING TO
THE CONFLICT OF NATIONALITY LAWS
THE HAGUE - 12 APRIL 1930
CHAPTER IV
NATIONALITY OF CHILDREN
Article 12
Rules of law which confer nationality by reason of birth on the territory of a State
shall not apply automatically to children born to persons enjoying diplomatic
immunities in the country where the birth occurs.
The law of each State shall permit children of consuls de carrière, or of officials of
foreign States charged with official missions by their Governments, to become
divested, by repudiation or otherwise, of the nationality of the State in which they
were born, in any case in which on birth they acquired dual nationality, provided that
they retain the nationality of their parents.
Article 13
Naturalisation of the parents shall confer on such of their children as, according to its
law, are minors the nationality of the State by which the naturalisation is granted. In
such case the law of that State may specify the conditions governing the acquisition of
its nationality by the minor children as a result of the naturalisation of the parents. In
cases where minor children do not acquire the nationality of their parents as the result
of the naturalisation of the latter, they shall retain their existing nationality.
Article 14
A child whose parents are both unknown shall have the nationality of the country of
birth. If the child’s parentage is established, its nationality shall be determined by the
rules applicable in cases where the parentage is known.
A foundling is, until the contrary is proved, presumed to have been born on the
territory of the State in which it was found.
Article 15
Where the nationality of a State is not acquired automatically by reason of birth on its
territory, a child born on the territory of that State of parents having no nationality, or
of unknown nationality, may obtain the nationality of the said State. The law of that
State shall determine the conditions governing the acquisition of its nationality in such
cases.
Article 16
If the law of the State, whose nationality an illegitimate child possesses, recognises
that such nationality may be lost as a consequence of a change in the civil status of the
child (legitimation, recognition), such loss shall be conditional on the acquisition by
the child of the nationality of another State under the law of such State relating to the
effect upon nationality of changes in civil status.
CHAPTER V
ADOPTION
Article 17
If the law of a State recognises that its nationality may be lost as the result of
adoption, this loss shall be conditional upon the acquisition by the person adopted of
the nationality of the person by whom he is adopted, under the law of the State of
which the latter is a national relating to the effect of adoption upon nationality.
“If a child is born American and the MOTHER vows in another country that her child is giving up his American citizenship, then I could see the courts here successfully arguing that indeed, the child did NOT on his own give up his American citizenship, and thus remains a natural born citizen.”
I am too tired to get it, but I saw a Supreme Court ruling on the ‘Net that stated a minor CANNOT be compelled to renounce citizenship, even if his parents do ...
The minor MUST attain the age of majority and THEN renounce his citizenship by any of several methods of affirmation ...
bump
Trying to get through this. Article 12 doesn’t apply to Obama. Article 13 seems to depend on HOW he got Indonesian citizenship. Was his mother also naturalized as an Indonesian citizen? Or was it conferred on her by marriage? Or not at all (she remained perhaps a legal immigrant)? Did Soetoro adopt the boy legally, this possibly naturalizing him? How DID he get his Indonesian citizenship?
14 and 15 do not apply.
Article 16 is too confusing for my little brain, but it sounds like it would apply to Obama if his parents never married. He was an illegitimate child in the USA, and thus possibly taking another citizenship might negate his first. But still, this was an earlier time. Today no child would be treated this way because his parents were not married. I don’t know if this is a retroactive thing. If Obama Sr. actually married Miss Dunham, 16 would not apply.
17 applies if Obama were adopted by Soetero. However, he was not adopted by two Indonesians, right? His mother retained her USA citizenship, I assume. So it’s not like a full adoption situation.
Must.. go.. to.. sleep...
bttt
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