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We Had a Democracy Once, But You Crushed It
Dissident Voice ^ | 08.09.03 | Russell Mokhiber and Robert Weissman

Posted on 02/02/2005 8:38:23 PM PST by Dr. Marten

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1 posted on 02/02/2005 8:38:23 PM PST by Dr. Marten
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To: Dr. Marten

ooops, it looks like the format didn't hold too well.


2 posted on 02/02/2005 8:38:56 PM PST by Dr. Marten (Xin Nian Kuai le! - - Cong Xi Fa Cai!)
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To: Dr. Marten

I fail to see the author's logic about this. Ok so the UK dissolved an elected leader in Iran? And this would of stopped the Mullahs from taking over eventually how? In fact they might have acted sooner.


3 posted on 02/02/2005 8:47:02 PM PST by miliantnutcase
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To: miliantnutcase

We dissolved an elected leader in Iran.

By we, of course, I mean the Eisenhower administration.


4 posted on 02/02/2005 8:48:42 PM PST by alexfromct
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To: Dr. Marten

Even if this guy is right, which I don't know if he is or not, bad behavior doesn't justify more bad behavior.


5 posted on 02/02/2005 8:50:29 PM PST by zbigreddogz
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To: Dr. Marten

Oh, and a LOT of things would be better in the Middle East had Carter not sold out the Shaw of Iran.


6 posted on 02/02/2005 8:51:20 PM PST by zbigreddogz
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To: Dr. Marten

Read this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Mossadegh

The operation wasn't entirely unjustified.


7 posted on 02/02/2005 8:51:36 PM PST by bahblahbah
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To: zbigreddogz

Not necessarily. The Shah in Iran was a brutal tyrant, and the coup of Mossadegh in 1953 only showed Iranians that a democratic, liberal, independent leader was too weak to stand up to the United States and the UK, and only a fascist dictator could keep Iran independent.

The logic this article uses is that if there were no coup in Iran, the Shah never would have taken absolute power in Iran, and there never would have been an Islamic Revolution. The book, All the Shah's Men, is a good one, and I highly reccomend it.


8 posted on 02/02/2005 8:54:15 PM PST by alexfromct
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To: bahblahbah

Not it was not entirely unjustified, but the events of history has shown it to be a collosal failure. That doesn't mean we have to apologize for something that happened 50 years ago, it's just a long gone mistake in history we still feel the effects from today.


9 posted on 02/02/2005 8:55:47 PM PST by alexfromct
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To: Dr. Marten
Wow, you mean we actually used to kill communists, instead of elect them.

Cool!! Can I play? It's been years. I hope it's like riding a bike.

Kinda makes me nostalgic for the good old days.

BTW, the other side of the "Lumumba" issue that the author forgot to mention is the good old Patrice Lumumba Institute that was run by the KGB in Moscow for decades.

Patrice Lumumba was a communist in the Belgian Congo who successfully fomented a bloody Marxist revolution there which the Russians sponsored, armed, and exploited (BTW, he was of all things, a mail superintendent. Talk about going postal).

In his honor, a "school" was named in which they trained thousands of revolutionaries from all over the globe in terrorist and insurrection tactics for better than 25 years.

They then used them in their strategy of "wars of national liberation" in strategic locations like... oh Cuba, Nicaragua, Rhodesia, South Africa, Vietnam, Lebanon, Northern Ireland, etc. come to mind.

It's ironic that this guy invokes Lumumba in reference to US policy. Other that killing the bastard, we aren't to blame for the human suffering exacted in his name.

That award goes to the communists and their cadre of useful idiots like the author.

I personally think that "liberal" is an entirely inappropriate moniker for the contemporary American left.

It's just too warm and fuzzy.

What they are are a bunch of burnt-out old radicals and wannabe revolutionaries that historical and political events have left in the dust.

Anyways, that's my "Commie History 101" rant for the evening.

Roger, out.
10 posted on 02/02/2005 9:02:07 PM PST by conservativeharleyguy (If we get to hunt Democrats, can I use my dogs, and what's the limit?)
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To: Dr. Marten

The author makes a fallacious and erroneous argument that somehow all of those events in the past are the mistakes of the present administration.

The President isn't outlining what we did, but what we're going to do. The President has basically put out for the world to see a comprehensive agenda to promote freedom, thereby preventing the realpolitik of the past from re-exerting itself in a similar manner.

Realpolitik is the tool of the weak. When a man acts with the full force of moral justification, and with the strength of an entire nation of willing and informed citizens - that nation can overcome just about anything.

Being able to set aside your morals to achieve a goal is not a sign of strength, it is a sign of a fundamental weakness of character.


11 posted on 02/02/2005 9:02:53 PM PST by coconutt2000 (NO MORE PEACE FOR OIL!!! DOWN WITH TYRANTS, TERRORISTS, AND TIMIDCRATS!!!! (3-T's For World Peace))
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To: conservativeharleyguy

Lumumba was entirely different from Mossadegh, and I have to side with you on that one.


12 posted on 02/02/2005 9:03:12 PM PST by alexfromct
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To: Dr. Marten
I must assume that Russell and Robert get paid by the paragraph.

Since every almost sentence, or even sentence fragment, seems to warrant its own paragraph.

Like this.

Or this.

It gets annoying.

And by the way, they really should learn how to spell the Secretary of State's first name. Getting that wrong, in the first sentence especially, tends to make the reader discount whatever follows.

Which, in this case, would be a wise decision.

13 posted on 02/02/2005 9:05:16 PM PST by southernnorthcarolina (OK, Congress is back in session -- Where's my tax cuts for the rich? )
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To: All
FDR propped up Stalin and the USSR ... 40 years later, Reagan brought them down ...

What's the point here?

14 posted on 02/02/2005 9:16:56 PM PST by Mr. Buzzcut (metal god ... visit The Ponderosa .... www.vandelay.com)
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To: Dr. Marten
Russell Mokhiber and Robert Weissman

Just, golly. Get over yourselves Bob and Russ. If you want to see a republic being turned into tyranny, you don't have to look much further than WA state, and an entire Dem apparatus, from the highest judiciary on down, willing to promote massive vote fraud and stuffing the ballot box in order to put their candidate in office - in 2005 (not 1935, 2005).

15 posted on 02/02/2005 9:18:45 PM PST by sevry
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To: conservativeharleyguy
Awesome rant, "consevative harley guy"...informative and well written.
16 posted on 02/02/2005 9:20:01 PM PST by Awgie (truth is always stranger than fiction)
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To: Dr. Marten
Here's something you can bet on: Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz will not hold a press conference this month to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the U.S.-led coup of the democratically elected leader of Iran -- Mohammed Mossadegh.

Hahaha.... Isn't this the Soviet-installed communist dictator of Iran??? Hahahaha....

17 posted on 02/02/2005 9:24:13 PM PST by The Old Hoosier (Right makes might.)
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To: zbigreddogz

I never understood those sorts of arguments. "We did something stupid in the past...let's keep on doing it that way!"

Duhr!


18 posted on 02/02/2005 9:24:42 PM PST by Constantine XIII
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To: The Old Hoosier

No he was the democratically elected Moderate Prime Minister of Iran.


19 posted on 02/02/2005 9:25:30 PM PST by alexfromct
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To: Dr. Marten
That was then. This is now.

Your point?

20 posted on 02/02/2005 9:28:49 PM PST by pillbox_girl
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