[Conservative til I die]

It got its name the Authorized 1611 due to the authority it obtained in all the Christian churches. Except of course, the Orthodox and Catholic Churches, and since then, many other Protestant sects. But I guess by your logic, those groups are not Christians for not accepting the primacy of the KJV translation (as circular an argument as I've ever seen).

>>>>>First, we are speaking of a Protestant Reformation Bible.

>>>>>Second, yes, if the Roman and Orthodox churches do not use the Received texts they are not using the correct texts.

>>>>>Nothing 'circular' about it at all.

Well, if you're saying that "all the Christian Churches" recognized its authority, and you admit that the Catholic and Orthodox Churches don't and never have, then the only way for your statement to be true is to say that the Catholic and Orthodox Churches are not actually Christian. To me that is a bit circular, if you are in fact disqualifying as a Christian anyone who disagrees with your particular doctrine.

I guess what I'm really trying to get it is, do you feel that the Catholic and Orthodox Churches are not Christian? For that matter, anyone who doesn't hold to the KJV only doctrine?

No, it doesn't, but if we look for a common element on apostasy, the first sign of it is when the church gives up its Bible for alternative authorities like Popes, Councils, Priests,Creeds, Scholars etc.

Well, to bring up Popes, Councils, and Creeds (it was the Lutherans, Calvinists, and other Reformation-era Protestants who followed the priests and scholars) is just silly, since the Christian Church was following those for over a millennia, and nearly all Christian Churches still recognize at least some of the Councils and Creeds.

If you ask me, there are two common starting points when apostasy began. The first is the Reformation itself, for the rather broad reason that it gave approval to the idea that anyone who felt like it could start their own sect based on their own personal interpretation of Scripture. The second, is 1930 when the first Christian sect began endorsing artificial birth control. You can see that since then, the slide into moral equivalency has accelerated. To me, it's Christianity's need to "get with the times" that is hurting it.

[fortheDeclaration]

It got its name the Authorized 1611 due to the authority it obtained in all the Christian churches. Except of course, the Orthodox and Catholic Churches, and since then, many other Protestant sects. But I guess by your logic, those groups are not Christians for not accepting the primacy of the KJV translation (as circular an argument as I've ever seen). >>>>>First, we are speaking of a Protestant Reformation Bible. >>>>>Second, yes, if the Roman and Orthodox churches do not use the Received texts they are not using the correct texts. >>>>>Nothing 'circular' about it at all. Well, if you're saying that "all the Christian Churches" recognized its authority, and you admit that the Catholic and Orthodox Churches don't and never have, then the only way for your statement to be true is to say that the Catholic and Orthodox Churches are not actually Christian. To me that is a bit circular, if you are in fact disqualifying as a Christian anyone who disagrees with your particular doctrine.

No, first I believe the Greek Orthodox church does use the TR.

Second, I would not regard Romanists as being saved if they follow the teachings of their church, salvation plus works.

A catholic may be saved despite being a Catholic by accepting Christ as his personal saviour and ignoring what the RCC teaches on the subject.

I guess what I'm really trying to get it is, do you feel that the Catholic and Orthodox Churches are not Christian? For that matter, anyone who doesn't hold to the KJV only doctrine?

It isn't the KJV only issue here it is faith plus Nothing (Gal.2:14)

No, it doesn't, but if we look for a common element on apostasy, the first sign of it is when the church gives up its Bible for alternative authorities like Popes, Councils, Priests,Creeds, Scholars etc. Well, to bring up Popes, Councils, and Creeds (it was the Lutherans, Calvinists, and other Reformation-era Protestants who followed the priests and scholars) is just silly, since the Christian Church was following those for over a millennia, and nearly all Christian Churches still recognize at least some of the Councils and Creeds.

And as a Bible believing Baptist, I believe that the Reformation did not go far enough in following Sola Scriptura.

They did have it correct in theory however, but did not put it into practice.

If you ask me, there are two common starting points when apostasy began. The first is the Reformation itself, for the rather broad reason that it gave approval to the idea that anyone who felt like it could start their own sect based on their own personal interpretation of Scripture. The second, is 1930 when the first Christian sect began endorsing artificial birth control. You can see that since then, the slide into moral equivalency has accelerated. To me, it's Christianity's need to "get with the times" that is hurting it.

Well, as far as I am concerned apostasy began when church combined with state under Constance.

That always leads to corruption and persecution.

That was another weakness with the Reformation.