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Posted on 03/30/2006 7:42:22 AM PST by CardCarryingMember.VastRightWC
A local Ft. Collins man was charged with sexual assault and "domestic violence harrassment" after his wife complained to police that on numerous occasions in the past year she awoke at night to find him "having sex or oral sex" even though she had told him this seemed like rape to her. The husband also admitted to taking nude photos of her while she slept.
But, you simply can't rape your wife or husband.
Never? Why not?
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I guess she didn't agree to have sex with him after marriage... except for that consummate a marriage part.
I wonder if there is a beating expectation as well? Nope, can't find one!
Fool
Just as I thought -- you don't know a damned thing about logic. What you've presented -- silly as it is -- is merely an explanation for why you agree with the logic of my comments. There's no fallacy, because my logic is correct -- you've said so yourself.
We also agree, I presume, that when a woman says "no" to sex among unmarried people, the man would be guilty of rape if he nevertheless forced the woman to have sex with him. (That is, I believe, the usual definition of rape.)
I then suggested that the logic of your statement compels one to conclude that your distinction between "rape" and "non-rape" has to do with the word "wife." As we see below, you loudly agree that my logic is correct on that point as well.
She married him. She moved in with him, slept in his bed. By that move...SHE AGREED TO HAVE SEX WITH HIM. No where, at any time, is there an implication of BEATINGS in a marriage agreement. But there is for SEX.
We are left, then, to address this assertion that marriage constitutes a binding contract for a wife to have sex whenever the husband demands it; and by this and other statements on this thread, one surmises that you believe a husband may force her to have sex, without legal repercussions, even when the wife says "no."
Does that about sum it up?
When you are married, you are one and sex is part of the deal.
If you try to have sex with your spouse when it is not wanted, it is unethical, wrong, and not faithful to your spouse.
But, it simply is impossible for it to be rape.
Gosh -- the ONLY one of us on this thread who presented an extensively researched dissertation on the legality of wife-beating was you.
Fool
Ironic that you should put that word on its own line, as if it were your signature....
We're not talking sex in general, we're talking about a specific act he was doing that she was uncomfortable with ... which included taking photos of her while she slept.
She told him not to do it. He did it anyway. While I think it's ridiculous that she had him charged with rape, what he was doing could just as easily be perceived as a violation of the "marriage covenant" as her refusing to have sex with him (and we don't know that she was refusing sex all together).
If the "repressed" Puritans understand the importance of sex in a marriage, why don't you?
I didn't make any comment on the "importance of sex in a marriage" and you certainly don't know what I do or do not understand. Don't pretend to.
I don't think his wife likes him very much.
What he did is not okay. It is detestable and not honoring to the marriage or the person he supposedly loves.
But, it is not rape.
I disagree. For example, if a man uses force to make his wife have sex against her will, that's rape. If a man and woman are married but separated, and he breaks into her house and forces her to have sex, that's rape.
Marriage does not protect men from being prosecuted for assault of any sort against his wife, rape included.
I guess I should clarify that if you are violent during the sex, hurt her etc., that obviously is not part of the marriage covenant, and in that case, it would be rape.
But, if you are having sex as you normally would and how she likes it, even if she is sleeping, it is not rape.
It is very enethical and immoral behavior, something that this man should not have done regardless of whether he was deprived (should have had better self control), but it is not rape.
So your wife was over at one of her friends. They watched this movie that involved a woman doing unspeakable things to her boyfriend with a plastic thingy.
She want's to try this admittedly very kinky thing. You (quite naturally) say 'No....Hell No!'. She drops the subject. But you wake up screaming. Was THAT rape?
You just said it could not be. Is kniky sex different? Where's the line? (You realize 'eating at the Y' is kinky to some. Leaving the lights on is too kinky for some.)
The fact is that you don't have an easement on your wifes goodies. Non-consentual sex is rape. There is no blanket consent.
However if she never gives you any your cause of divorce is 'Abandonment'.
I certainly do not mean to say say what he did was right, and it could be grounds for divorce since he did violate her bodily.
But, I just would not consider it rape.
good points
I've been married so long, I don't even know what sex is.
thanks for your thoughts.
I guess regardless of what we call it, what the creep did was wrong....at least I think we agree he was not doing an ethical thing by having sex with a sleeping person.
I'm considering it :)
And thus you agree that it's not "impossible" to rape your spouse, so now we're left to draw the line between "rape" and "non-rape" within the marriage covenant.
But, if you are having sex as you normally would and how she likes it, even if she is sleeping, it is not rape.
But she obviously didn't like it, and told him to stop, and he continued to do it. One can argue either way about whether this crosses the line over to "rape" -- I tend to think it does -- but even if you believe otherwise, I think you'll agree that it's a lot closer to the "rape" line than is consensual sex.
I would agree with you that it is a lot closer to rape than consensual sex.
She did tell him to stop. Whether it actually is or not, I am not sure. I have a high bar for rape in marriage for whatever reason (perhaps since it could be claimed by angry wives or husbands trying to get back at spouses).
But, it certainly is not even close to being okay what he did.
There is no better way to be awoken (when it's welcome). There is no way to complete the act on someone who is sleeping (as opposed to passed out).
If she wakes up and says stop, you stop. Up till then I would argue no rape had occured. You were just trying to get her attention.
This isn't 'Nam Smokey there are rules! ;-)
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