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To: Retain Mike
The "random" in random selection is defined as haphazard or without definite method or purpose.

Wow! I didn't know anyone was still following this thread...

That's not really how natural selection works - initial changes & mutations are random, but the mechanism of natural selection forces the propagation of only traits that are favorable to continued reproduction - this is a very definite method/purpose and not haphazard at all.

Of course there are still many open questions about the thermal conditions necessary for the chemical evolution of life (particularly earliest life), but just because we can't identify all these parameters, doesn't mean we don't have other evidence in support of evolution. (I don't know the temperature & thermodynamic conditions on the night OJ killed Nicole, I infer that it happened from other circumstances.)

My point is that thermodynamics does not prove evolution impossible (or even unlikely, for that matter - order from disorder in thermodynamic subsystems is oberved all the time). We just simply don't know (and for the moment, can't know) the thermal boundary conditions specific to isolated biological systems millions or billions of years ago and have to search along other lines of inquiry for evidence. Thermodynamics just doesn't help much, either in a positive or negative way here.

1,262 posted on 02/22/2006 7:12:23 AM PST by Quark2005 (Is Gould dead?)
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To: Quark2005

I remember seeing a graph that order from disorder occurred at above .3 the speed of light and with micro processes. These are all macro processes moving slowly. When I see pictures of this subject debated there are two people at podiums and no chalk board for derivations or measurements. The debate over Evolution seems limited to observations, and to assumptions about what they mean. The best science includes observations, measurements, and derivations. At the other end, one criticism of String Theory as a theory of everything is that it can only be described mathematically. There are many unconvinced theoretical physicists who say proponents are moving into the area of philosophy. If evidence for Evolution is at the other end of the spectrum, then I think it should be subject to the same sort of criticism. How much of its utility is scientific and how much is philosophical?

I was gone for a couple weeks driving across country with my son and am still catching up.


1,263 posted on 02/23/2006 11:00:31 PM PST by Retain Mike
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