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Posted on 09/07/2005 5:15:28 PM PDT by Man50D
NEW YORK (Money magazine) - If you don't care much for talk radio, or you don't live in the South, the name Neal Boortz might not ring a bell.
But pay attention: Around 4 million people nationwide catch his radio show. It's No. 1 in Boortz's home market of Atlanta and ranks first or second in numerous smaller cities in red states.
His 180-page polemic for radical tax reform, The FairTax Book, made its debut at No. 1 on the New York Times' bestseller list in August.
When Boortz came to Jacksonville for a book signing at a downtown hotel on a sticky, sweltering Thursday night last month, close to 1,000 people turned out for a chance to meet him -- and to bask in his rage at the Internal Revenue Service.
"How many of you want the federal government out of your paycheck?" asks Boortz from the hotel's ballroom stage. Wooo-hooo! roars the crowd. Boortz's wife Donna, standing at the back of the room, looks on in amazement.
"This is for taxes," she says. "This is not sex and violence we're talking about."
No kidding. Everybody likes a tax cut, but fundamental tax reform is one of those issues that's generally as boring as it is important. Who wants to waste an evening thinking about marginal rates? But the plan Boortz is selling is disarmingly simple: Just eliminate most federal taxes -- income tax, Social Security tax, corporate tax, what's left of the estate tax -- and replace them with a big, fat national sales tax.
(Excerpt) Read more at money.cnn.com ...
Who do you believe ever said there was a simultaneous change?? Please post the source for your statement.
OK, where?????? Let me show you otherwise
Here are just a few of the examples which show that FairyTaxers get the 22% price reduction of Jorgenson's study, which now even Pigdog admits assumed wages go down:
LINDER: A study out of Harvard in 1997. Dale Jorgenson, who is chairman of economics at Harvard. There have been estimates from 15 percent to 30 percent. On average, he says, 22 percent represents paying for the income tax costs, the payroll tax costs and the accountants and attorneys to avoid the tax costs for every business enterprise...
CAVUTO: So, take that out of the equation, everything drops by that amount?
LINDER: Twenty-two percent. You replace it by 23 percent tax, a frank, transparent tax embedded in the cost at retail, and everybody gets to takes their whole check home. And the average income earner gets a 50 percent increase in take-home pay.
FairTax Foul Play - NRO
"Dale Jorgenson, former chairman of the Economics Department at Harvard, has projected an average producer-price reduction of 22 percent for goods and services in just the first year after the adoption of the FairTax."
"The FairTax calls for an additional sales tax; most persons fall into an income tax bracket of 15%, and all wage earners pay 7.65% in payroll taxes, which is where the 23% originates. Also to be considered are the hidden taxes embedded in everything that one buys from goods to services, which garner taxable rates of 22% and 25% respectively (a figure that was determined by Dale Jorgenson, former chairperson of the Economics Department at Harvard University)."
FairTax
Frequently Asked Questions
When corporate income taxes are repealed, pre-tax prices can come down an average of 22 percent for goods and 25 percent for services according to Dale Jorgenson, Ph.D., former chairman of the Harvard University Economics Department.
Theses all all in Addition to Boortz book. Everyone is using Jorgenson. Jorgenson's work is QUOTED and MISREPRESENTED time and time again. 100% of your paycheck and 22% price reduction. It is all A BIG FAT LIE. You quote Jorgenson numbers in one breath and tell them they get to keep their whole paycheck in the next. It is a L-I-E. I really don't care how you twist it. It is a L-I-E.
Goes to show how WRONG those "funny feelings" can be, eh?
Maybe it's just the early onset of Alzheimer's?
Well I am surprise at your willingness to keep displaying your utter ignorance. I guess I should never underestimate your willingness to do so.
'bout d@mn time the "poor" started paying their fair share. This class warfare "soak the rich" cr@p is beginning to PO me. Right now we have 50% of the population paying nearly all the taxes, but the untaxed folks have the same vote as they taxpayers. Guess what they vote for...
But, in case ya didn't notice, there is a "prebate" that rebates the sales tax up to the individual poverty line. Forget how much it is per person, per month, but its in th plan.
Have your doctor check if your meds are correct for your case ...
So, if I incorporate my family, can I get out of the sales tax?
Pigdog, you have been reduced to nothing but name-calling. You have no arguement. Your main arguement is exposed as a lie.
No, your coporation would be liable for taxes on converting business assets to personal use.
Awwww, darn.
Wouldn't it be great to pay no Federal Taxes as long as you buy no Foreign goods if the Federal Government got all it's money for operating expenses from import Tariffs as spelled out in the Constitution?
I oppose a National Sales Tax because it would be just as Un-Constitutional as the National Income Tax is now.
Nothing of the sort Rongie. Your assertions that the FairTax is nothing but a lie is what has been exposed repeatedly to be quite wrong ... a huge dose of misinformation and nothing but.
You aren't even willing to admit that prices will decrease when the cascading, embedded tax costs are removed and instead try to rely on the pretense that one economist said prices would decrease because wages decreased (which actually is not what he said in any event - but just your malinterpretation).
Most people with any sense realize that it is this feature that will make prices decrease and not decreasing an employee's wages. You don't seem to "get it", but that's hardly a surprise.
But only if they found out you converted the goods to personal use. Who is to say what is personal use and business use since they got rid of all the rules. I suppose you get to make the call.
As I have shown above, that is YOUR source, your ONLY source for the widely reported 22% drop. Time after time after time after time, FairyTaxers have misrepresented what Jorgenson said and have been doing it for over 7 years.
Actually, it would be a uniform excise tax as allowed by Article I, Section 8, Clause 1 of the U.S. Constiution:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
You would also have to register with the state sales tax authority as a reseller and thereby become subject to the provisions of the FairTax law.
Firstly it is not MY source as you keep trying to incorrectly state. And I have never stated "22%" which you seem insistent on putting in my mouth. And Jorgenson is hardly the only economist looking into the FairTax. Your claim of "misrepresentation" of Jorgenson's work is solely yours due to your erroneous assumptions of his meaning.
As for the price drop, that is certainly going to take place due to not the redction of wages but the removal of the cascading, embedded tax costs from prices.
The fact that you don't understand this doesn't bother me one bit since most reasonable people DO understand it - as well as most economists. So just keep up your never-ending barrage of vitrol about the FairTax. As it progresses you'll have plenty of time to admit how wrong you really are.
You may be correct in your judgement on a National Sales Tax being a Constitutional Excise Tax,however an Excise Tax imposed on ALL goods rather than just on certain goods seems to me to be more over reaching and oppressive a system of taxation than what the Founders intended.
The Government shouldn't need so much money that it has to tax everything.
Jorgenson is quoted by Boortz and Linder and Fairtax.org and many more. Jorgenson was PAID by Americans For Fair Taxation to do said study. Dr. Jorgenson is the one who has done extensive research and modelled the fair tax. If Dr. Jorgenson says his 22% drop assumes wages were cut, the claims made using his figure is a lie if you are also claiming that you get 100% of your current wages. There is really no way you can spin out of it. Whether economist Joe Blow thinks prices will drop for other reasons, it has no bearing on this. The point is, FairyTaxers are quoting Jorgenson, but not presenting his findings accurately. In fact, they are inaccurate to the tune of $1.3 Trillion. A huge misrepresentation.
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