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An opposing view: Descendant of black Confederate soldier speaks at museum
Thomasville Times-Enterprise ^ | 24 Feb 2004 | Mark Lastinger

Posted on 02/25/2004 11:52:26 AM PST by 4CJ

THOMASVILLE -- Nelson Winbush knows his voice isn't likely to be heard above the crowd that writes American history books. That doesn't keep him from speaking his mind, however.

A 75-year-old black man whose grandfather proudly fought in the gray uniform of the South during the Civil War, Winbush addressed a group of about 40 at the Thomas County Museum of History Sunday afternoon. To say the least, his perspective of the war differs greatly from what is taught in America's classrooms today.

"People have manufactured a lot of mistruths about why the war took place," he said. "It wasn't about slavery. It was about state's rights and tariffs."

Many of Winbush's words were reserved for the Confederate battle flag, which still swirls amid controversy more than 150 years after it originally flew.

"This flag has been lied about more than any flag in the world," Winbush said. "People see it and they don't really know what the hell they are looking at."

About midway through his 90-minute presentation, Winbush's comments were issued with extra force.

"This flag is the one that draped my grandfathers' coffin," he said while clutching it strongly in his left hand. "I would shudder to think what would happen if somebody tried to do something to this particular flag."

Winbush, a retired in educator and Korean War veteran who resides in Kissimmee, Fla., said the Confederate battle flag has been hijacked by racist groups, prompting unwarranted criticism from its detractors.

"This flag had nothing to with the (Ku Klux) klan or skinheads," he said while wearing a necktie that featured the Confederate emblem. "They weren't even heard of then. It was just a guide to follow in battle.

"That's all it ever was."

Winbush said Confederate soldiers started using the flag with the St. Andrews cross because its original flag closely resembled the U.S. flag. The first Confederate flag's blue patch in an upper corner and its alternating red and white stripes caused confusion on the battlefield, he said.

"Neither side (of the debate) knows what the flag represents," Winbush said. "It's dumb and dumber. You can turn it around, but it's still two dumb bunches.

"If you learn anything else today, don't be dumb."

Winbush learned about the Civil War at the knee of Louis Napoleon Nelson, who joined his master and one of his master's sons in battle voluntarily when he was 14. Nelson saw combat at Lookout Mountain, Bryson's Crossroads, Shiloh and Vicksburg.

"At Shiloh, my grandfather served as a chaplain even though he couldn't read or write," said Winbush, who bolstered his points with photos, letters and newspapers that used to belong to his grandfather. "I've never heard of a black Yankee holding such an office, so that makes him a little different."

Winbush said his grandfather, who also served as a "scavenger," never had any qualms about fighting for the South. He had plenty of chances to make a break for freedom, but never did. He attended 39 Confederate reunions, the final one in 1934. A Sons of Confederate Veterans Chapter in Tennessee is named after him.

"People ask why a black person would fight for the Confederacy. (It was) for the same damned reason a white Southerner did," Winbush explained.

Winbush said Southern blacks and whites often lived together as extended families., adding slaves and slave owners were outraged when Union forces raided their homes. He said history books rarely make mention of this.

"When the master and his older sons went to war, who did he leave his families with?" asked Winbush, who grandfather remained with his former owners 12 years after the hostilities ended. "It was with the slaves. Were his (family members) mistreated? Hell, no!

"They were protected."

Winbush said more than 90,000 blacks, some of them free, fought for the Confederacy. He has said in the past that he would have fought by his grandfather's side in the 7th Tennessee Cavalry led by Gen. Nathan Bedford Forest.

After his presentation, Winbush opened the floor for questions. Two black women, including Jule Anderson of the Thomas County Historical Society Board of Directors, told him the Confederate battle flag made them uncomfortable.

Winbush, who said he started speaking out about the Civil War in 1992 after growing weary of what he dubbed "political correctness," was also challenged about his opinions.

"I have difficulty in trying to apply today's standards with what happened 150 years ago," he said to Anderson's tearful comments. "...That's what a lot of people are attempting to do. I'm just presenting facts, not as I read from some book where somebody thought that they understood. This came straight from the horse's mouth, and I refute anybody to deny that."

Thomas County Historical Society Board member and SVC member Chip Bragg moved in to close the session after it took a political turn when a white audience member voiced disapproval of the use of Confederate symbols on the state flag. Georgia voters are set to go to the polls a week from today to pick a flag to replace the 1956 version, which featured the St. Andrew's cross prominently.

"Those of us who are serious about our Confederate heritage are very unhappy with the trivialization of Confederate symbols and their misuse," he said. "Part of what we are trying to do is correct this misunderstanding."


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: dixie; dixielist
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To: #3Fan
See The Presidential Reform Act of April 14, 1865.
921 posted on 03/18/2004 5:13:58 PM PST by nolu chan
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
Please, Article IV refers ONLY to acts being valid in another state: "Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State." It is in reference of preventing each state for having to validate/prove (as in evidence) the acts of another state - a judgement in court, a will etc

Yeah, states have to prove their acts to other states. Thugs grabbing a gavel and proclaiming secession doesn't qualify, I'd say. If secession was never proven then those thugs engaged in a coup and were indeed rebels.

922 posted on 03/18/2004 5:16:00 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: #3Fan
[##3Fan] The southern states got the bitch-slapping of all time. lol

Count the KIA.

It isn't much to laugh about.

923 posted on 03/18/2004 5:17:06 PM PST by nolu chan
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To: nolu chan
There was unlawful suppression of opposing votes. It does not meet your standard.

How many voters were shot in the voting booth? If what you say is true then Lincoln should have won with 100% of the vote. If no one was shot in the voting booth then you're full of it.

924 posted on 03/18/2004 5:17:29 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
Good. The "supreme" law is a creature of the people - it's creators. The states ratified to create it, and per the 10th Amendment, what is not delegated nor prohibited remains with the states.

Texas is not a foreign country and therefore the Constitution is the supreme law of the land.

925 posted on 03/18/2004 5:18:47 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: nolu chan
See post #767.
926 posted on 03/18/2004 5:19:23 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: #3Fan
[#3Fan] Yeah, states have to prove their acts to other states.

They prove (authenticate) their official acts by affixing the official state seal. That's the law.

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a4_1s6.html

Article 4, Section 1


[Volume 4, Page 472]

Document 6

An Act to Prescribe the Mode in Which the Public Acts, Records and Judicial Proceedings in Each State, Shall Be Authenticated So As to Take Effect in Every Other State

1 Stat. 122 1790

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the acts of the legislatures of the several states shall be authenticated by having the seal of their respective states affixed thereto: That the records and judicial proceedings of the courts of any state, shall be proved or admitted in any other court within the United States, by the attestation of the clerk, and the seal of the court annexed, if there be a seal, together with a certificate of the judge, chief justice, or presiding magistrate, as the case may be, that the said attestation is in due form. And the said records and judicial proceedings authenticated as aforesaid, shall have such faith and credit given to them in every court within the United States, as they have by law or usage in the courts of the state from whence the said records are or shall be taken.

Approved, May 26, 1790.
927 posted on 03/18/2004 5:19:34 PM PST by nolu chan
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To: nolu chan
No, but we draw unending amusement from your unique interpretations of the Constitution.

Unique? The Confederacy was declared illegal and was defeated. I'd say I'm not the only one that saw their secession as illegal.

928 posted on 03/18/2004 5:20:50 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: nolu chan
See The Presidential Reform Act of April 14, 1865.

Another lawbreaker you hold up as legit. Not surprising. Assassins will burn in hell.

929 posted on 03/18/2004 5:22:11 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: nolu chan
Count the KIA.

Home-field advantage. Confederates got a taste of it in Gettysburg. Taking glee in dead American soldiers...I thought you guys said you weren't going to do that. Not surprising considering your character, you side with murderers after all. Even most Southerners of the time considered Booth as despicable.

It isn't much to laugh about.

Unlike you I laugh at the slaveowners whose crimes weren't allowed to stand, they're the ones that got bitchslapped. I don't laugh at dead Americans.

930 posted on 03/18/2004 5:27:17 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: nolu chan
See post #767.
931 posted on 03/18/2004 5:28:06 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: #3Fan
42
932 posted on 03/18/2004 5:29:05 PM PST by nolu chan
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To: #3Fan
SOURCE: U.S. Supreme Court, MILWAUKEE COUNTY v. M.E. WHITE CO., 296 U.S. 268
The faith and credit required to be given to judgments does not depend on the Constitution alone. Article 4, 1, not only commands that 'full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State' but it adds 'Congress may be general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.' And Congress has exercised this power, by Act of May 26, 1790, c. 11, 28 U.S.C . 687, 28 USCA 687, which provides the manner of proof of judgments of one state in the courts of another, and specifically directs that judgments 'shall have such faith and credit given to them in every court within the United States as they have by law or usage in the courts of the State from which they are taken.'

933 posted on 03/18/2004 5:32:08 PM PST by nolu chan
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To: #3Fan
The correct quote is "Count the KIA. It isn't much to laugh about."

Only someone too cowardly to have put on the uniform would fail to understand.

934 posted on 03/18/2004 5:36:13 PM PST by nolu chan
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To: nolu chan
See post #767.
935 posted on 03/18/2004 5:36:22 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: nolu chan
Anger management for you too. You guys are losing it.
936 posted on 03/18/2004 5:38:15 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: #3Fan
Right next to good old Thad Stevens who was sort of Dahmeresque.

While in college Stevens committed an act which showed a violent streak in his character. A farmer's cows were allowed to graze on the college campus, much to the annoyance of some of the students who would now and then step in cow dung, especially at night. Stevens and a friend killed one of the cows with an ax. He later confessed this crime and compensated the farmer for his cow.
A poor cow, where she is supposed to be, answers the call of nature. One of your sick, twisted heroes comes and steps in it and gets an ax and assassinates the poor cow.

#3Fan marks it down as an early showing of heroism.

937 posted on 03/18/2004 5:40:51 PM PST by nolu chan
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To: #3Fan
#913 [#3Fan] The southern states got the bitch-slapping of all time. lol

There is the quote.

-YOU- were the one laughing at hundreds of thousands of KIA.

-I- am the one who suited up for 20 years.

I understand your ignorance. And I understand that you would put in for a medal if you got a finger caught between two keys. There is nothing quite like a Remington Raider.

You qualify, Mikey.

938 posted on 03/18/2004 5:46:45 PM PST by nolu chan
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To: nolu chan
Who the hell is Thad Stevens and why are you so worked up about a cow? [cookoo!]
939 posted on 03/18/2004 5:46:53 PM PST by #3Fan (Kerry to POW-MIA activists: "You'll wish you'd never been born.". Link on my homepage.)
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To: #3Fan
42
940 posted on 03/18/2004 5:47:14 PM PST by nolu chan
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