What Went Wrong? Gun Prop Experts on Alec Baldwin Disaster (Producer Baldwin hired non-union gun handlers)

Daily Beast ^ | 10/22/2021 | Cheyenne Roundtree Justin Rohrlich

[marcusmaximus]

The production of the upcoming western movie Rust came to a tragic halt on Thursday afternoon in New Mexico, after actor and producer Alec Baldwin discharged a prop firearm that resulted in the death of the film’s cinematographer.

Halyna Hutchins, 42, was reportedly struck in the stomach and was airlifted to the University of New Mexico Hospital in Albuquerque, where she died, according to Deadline.

-snip-

“Rule number one, when you’re doing these rehearsals, the firearm, even though it has blanks, it’s never fired at anybody, the angles are always cheated,” Howell says. “Those angles always look to the viewer as though it’s directed at them, but it isn’t, it’s always aimed off. So, the actors train, train, train, and then when the armorer decides that rehearsal is fine and lets everybody know, then you go ahead. So, it’s very, very controlled—health and safety risk assessments before you get there, and everybody is aware when there are live firearms on the set firing blanks.”

“We never point that barrel at another actor, even if it’s a gun that has a block barrel, it’s just good training,” Hunter added. “If you don’t point a gun at another human, it won’t kill them. You’re never supposed to have live ammunition on the set, but just because there’s no live ammunition does not mean that something can get in the barrel of a gun and become a projectile.”

It is unclear if the gun was fired during a scene rehearsal or filming, but Hunter explained that the firearm should never be placed in the actor’s hand until the last possible minute.

[flamberge]

It’s not like were saying that “we should stone Alec Baldwin and his family to death”, or anything like that.

I would be satisfied if he were asset-stripped down to his underwear and the proceeds distributed to the relatives of the injured parties.

Payment of "blood money" for an involuntary homicide is a time-honored tradition in many cultures, including ours.

Of course, I would prefer that there was a trial, with due process, presumption of innocence, testimony under oath and judgement according to laws. I am sentimental like that.

And quite possibly, Alec Baldwin might not be at fault. It is not, under current laws, a crime to be a bad-tempered asshole. Many of us, including myself, would be in big trouble if that were so. And shockingly, my preliminary assessment (Guilty of involuntary manslaughter) could be wrong. Some other people had a hand in this debacle. Further checking is needed before ordering any sanctions.

I am most comfortable with strong restraints on the ability of Government (or private vigilantes) to impose sanctions on people. Life is better that way.

But all the rules seem to be changing and one must adapt to the times that we live in.

[eastforker]

This might be making more sense. If the union guys walked out and the non union came in, who is to say, or not say, that a union hand might have slipped some live ammo onto the set. Union hands can get quite serious.

[flamberge]

By live ammo in this case it was likely a blank cartridge.

The injuries described so far are not consistent with a blank cartridge.

This was one or two rounds of live ammo.

The reports so far do not make it clear whether it was one round that struck both people or two separate rounds. It was said that there was two separate and aimed trigger pulls in rapid sequence, preceded by an angry comment from Alec Baldwin.

By now, the questions on those details have been answered. We just have not yet seen the answers. They will come out soon enough.

[GOPJ]

But, but, but I thought ‘gun violence’ was always the fault of ‘the gun’...

[flamberge]

who is to say, or not say, that a union hand might have slipped some live ammo onto the set.

I will say it. It would not have mattered.

A competent set armorer would have caught something like that in the weapons check immediately before the scene started. It is what they do. Every time. Union, or non-union makes no difference.

Maybe the armorer was not competent. Or maybe there was not an armorer at all. That would be the fault of the Director and the Producers.

[Secret Agent Man]

Its rare in this world to see some real well deserved justice occur.

wish he didn’t have to kill someone else for it to be served to him, though.

[discostu]

This might actually be one of the cases where the union is helpful. If you’ve got a union set going the union is VERY anal about “oh there’s guns in the script, that means you need one of our certified armorers”. When you’re just grabbing people you don’t necessarily know if your gun handler knows anything, or just happened to be a dude looking for work today.

[Kadric]

That does not hold up. By statements from other sources the projectile, passed completely through into the other person. A wad would not carry enough energy for this. I suspect a situation similar to Brandon Lee’s. The gun had been used in another shoot and had a bullet from a squib load stuck in the barrel and was not fully checked before loading a full power blank . Which made a complete live cartridge.

[slouper]

I didn’t know they used real weapons.

[Scrambler Bob]

Other than if gun handlers were replaced by Baldwin they it would appear he might be more liable in a lawsuit.
= = =

Change ‘Baldwin’ to ‘Trump’ and ask Alec who would be liable.

[William Tell]

This was later reinforced in my concealed carry class when the teacher told us “All guns are always loaded.” Not “Treat every gun as if it were loaded”.

The safety rules as I practice them:

- Treat every gun as if it was loaded.
- Never aim the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.
- Keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire.
- Be sure of your target and what is around and beyond it.

You may notice that the rules as I follow them are all COMMANDS. Your version substitutes a statement of fact, "All guns are always loaded", for one of the commands.

In addition to eliminating the command, your statement of fact is FALSE. In your own posting you refer to "even an unloaded BB gun". Your statement of fact declares that there is no such thing. My command insists that you treat an unloaded BB gun as if it is loaded.

The point is:
Even if you KNOW that the gun is unloaded, treat it as loaded.
Even if you KNOW you are not going to fire, don't point the gun at anything you are not willing to destroy.
Even if you KNOW that you will not inadvertantly pull the trigger, don't touch the trigger until you are ready to fire.
Even if you KNOW that you will hit your target, consider the risk to objects near or beyond that target.

[maxwellsmart_agent]

Someone should be punished for the life lost in thus accident. I do not know who that someone is. Who is the man who put a live round in the prop gun? When dealing with firearms, it is important that the person is sensible. In this case he was not.

[BozoTexino]

So much speculation. I’m sure the results of the investigation will be just as worthless.

[SteveH]

by coincidence, I watched one of joel souza’s previous movies, crown vic (2019) a couple of months ago.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4558200/

i got halfway through the movie before giving up on it as unwatchable due to the slow pace and the relentless use of film moir cliches.

[WMarshal]

Captain Peter Blood, There is an old saying “When you have a problem with a lot of people then maybe you are the problem.”

You are trying to defend a dick who ‘popped an cap’ into a woman and killed her while at the same time you are trying to enforce your standards of etiquette on others. it’s not going to end well.

Relax.

[higgmeister]

But it sounds like it was in trouble at least financially before this show stopper.

[higgmeister]

You played Curly McLain?

[minnesota_bound]

Alec Baldwin got mad like he always does. BANG!!

[higgmeister]

With a blank, when you squeeze the trigger no bullet is fired. "Instead of using a bullet, blanks use wads of paper, plastic, felt or cotton – this wadding ensures you get a certain level of flame out of the gun," they wrote. "The force of the wadding was enough to fatally injure [Hexum]."

The projectile went through the woman and wounded the man in the clavicle.   Wadding alone would not do that.

[PDGearhead]

I believe Alec Baldwin is the co-producer of the film.