Posted on 03/30/2020 3:27:37 PM PDT by monkeyshine
Yes - same paper. See the very last chart on the last page. Those are truly remarkable results. Published 2 weeks ago. They knew the data even before it was published. The whole alphabet swamp dragging its feet for 3 or more weeks before they agreed to use this regimen.
The data compiled since then, some of it just anecdotal, unpublished reports and some of it from this same doctor treating more patients in a different study group, further confirms the results of the first study.
And given that the drug is old, generic, and generally safe for all but a small number of people there is no reason to hold it back. I don’t know why those governors are ordering doctors not to prescribe it and even the MI governor wants pharmacists to ‘inform’ on doctors who write it. Makes me want to curse. Curseword idiot politicians and bureaucrats.
Yes, those in theory would seem to do a better job than beta blockers. I take an old beta blocker and an old ace inhibitor for BP. I wondered if I should cease the BB for a few weeks but decided against it even after seeing his video. They work well for me, keep my BP in normal range. Why risk hypertension for an unknown eventuality that if it occurs would probably make things even worse. One bridge at a time. First do no harm and all that.
First, consult your Physician.
Good advice, but I don’t think I need to consult them to keep doing what they said I should do. But you never know. ;-)
We live in interesting times, my FRiend.
The word earlier is Raoult is about to publish 1200 cases with one fatality. If you read his first paper his patients are all “serious” so this is not 1200 “all patients”. That is going to be definitely statistically significant. Like I say, I think people are going to be disappointed in how the drugs are actually used. They seem to have thought it would be like HIV or something and you just take the drugs. These drugs will be used in hospitalized patients. Probably not much beyond that. To decrease the length of stay.
[The word earlier is Raoult is about to publish 1200 cases with one fatality. If you read his first paper his patients are all “serious” so this is not 1200 “all patients”. That is going to be definitely statistically significant. Like I say, I think people are going to be disappointed in how the drugs are actually used. They seem to have thought it would be like HIV or something and you just take the drugs. These drugs will be used in hospitalized patients. Probably not much beyond that. To decrease the length of stay.]
Well that would disappoint me. I know it is not prophylactic. But they should give it at least to positive symptomatic people of a certain ago or with certain underlying conditions before they ever get to the hospital.
[The IHU website has summary data on number of tests, positive results, and deaths, along with results for their treated group of patients. It is much less detailed than their publications, but updates frequently.
You can look at it here. ]
I don’t think it would have any prophylactic effect on people who don’t already have the viral infection. So, useless and potentially dangerous to give it to everyone. It is not a vaccine, it is a treatment for the disease itself. The idea would be to prevent people from getting into a condition where they need to be hospitalized.
I know given my CV history if I thought I was infected I’d want it right away. And throw in a couple dozen codeine tablets and some Ambien so I can sleep off the 3-5 days of symptoms ;-)
The Indian Ministry of Health seems to think that prophylactic use of hydroxychloroquine is a good idea.
I defer to the experts. It may work to a degree if you keep taking it. I know some people have taken the first drug for extended periods while overseas, to prevent malaria. In fact I know a Dept of Defense contractor who is taking hydroxychloroquine regularly during assignment to a 3rd world nation. So maybe it would work if you keep on the drug, but not sure about the azythromycin. Taking that for extended periods may be a mistake - but it’s just my layman’s opinion.
It seems that the specific combination of chloroquine, azythromycin, and possibly Zinc and/or Vitamin C as well work together to basically starve the virus and its effects by inhibiting its ability to bind to cells, reproduce, and prevent pneumonia (I’m close on that description but probably not exact).
...how the drugs are actually used.
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I have read in several commentries that HCQ alone is used prophylactically and front-line health care providers in major hospitals are already using it to avoid infection.
Can’t recall, but perhaps reduces viral load?
45 years ago, we took a 3 month trip to the South Pacific, including Papua New Guinea. When we got to Australia, they asked if we had received anything for malaria. People said:”We all have it.” The quinine pills were available in the local pharmacies OTC. I believe these were just plain old quinine, which was then available OTC for muscle cramps here in the US.
We had received some shots (I recall Yellow Fever), but no one had mentioned malaria. We bought and took the pills. Mosquitos were everywhere and we did get bitten, but did not get malaria. DH is something of a germophobe and was quite nervous, but we ended up being fine.
Since then, it seems to me I have read that quinine was more of a help with symptoms of malaria than with prevention, but I really don’t know.
They are ramping up the HCQ production (hundreds of millions of doses) and so, I am wondering if it will be used prophylactically with those at risk.
Yes I think that’s an important point. The cases he is treating are very serious, people who have progressed and many on ventilators. So it stands to reason if you can give it to people before they advance to such a stage, before they require hospitalization, the better off they will be. If they are asymptomatic, maybe they can skip the regimen. But onset or worsening of symptoms, or underlying conditions - they should take it before they need hospitalization.
Again, this is just a layman’s opinion.
mark
Partisan Media Shills update.
The prophylactic use has already been sequestered to the Black Market, sounds like. India is advertising they will use it prophylactically. Which in practice is going to mean India’s wealthy will use it so as to be able to maintain contact with their servants.
Since it is an epidemic we have to eliminate the virus. Strand it on an island of isolation. Don’t let it claim one more person. Imagine the entire country frozen in place for two weeks. No more viral “replicators” (humans infected), no more virus, no more patients. Done. Over. In theory. Now we have to do it.
It’s logistics and supply. And frankly, I still say it’s a terrible drug. If I have to return and play doctor I won’t take it prophylactically. I would depend on my ability to use PPE, and if it’s as contagious as I suspect, probably fail. That is where I would “begin” if I had to. But I would hold out as absolutely long as I can.
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