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To: nopardons
nopardons: "IF you are truly interested in this topic, I'll give you some book titles to help you out."

Years ago German scholars established that what you posted here is pure fantasy.
The actual sequence of events is well recorded here:
Europe's Last Summer: Who Started the Great War in 1914?

Tuchman leaves blank the period from assassination to declaration of war.
That's the period Fromkin fills in.

As for your supposed Russian support for Serbia's Black Hand and Russia allegedly pushing those young men to assassinate the Austrian Arch Duke:

nopardons: "Russian was all for the Bosnians and Serbs breaking away, so that perhaps Russia could take them over, or, at the l;east, cause some havoc.
So they helped push the assassination, paid for some of the guns and bullets, and DID meddle in this whole thing; before, during, and afterwards! "

I've seen nothing suggesting any Russians, much less the Tsar's government, even knew of Princip's plan.
Indeed, the role of Apis himself is not even fully established.

nopardons: "The Emperor Franz Joseph, demanded an apology! One would have prevented WW I; at least at that time! "

Sorry, but you are terribly confused.
In fact, the Kaiser's High Command pushed & pushed reluctant Austrians to issue Serbia an ultimatum and then to refuse to accept Serbia's submission on all but one point, then pushed Austria to declare war on Serbia.

118 posted on 09/13/2019 4:06:28 AM PDT by BroJoeK ((a little historical perspective...))
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To: BroJoeK
I'm NOT the one who is "confused"; not I !

How many years ago did those German scholars decided that others ( not I; but the books and articles I've read ) wrote "pure fantasy" ?

In 1989, as a sequel to his A NERVOUS SPLENDOR, Frederic Morton published THUNDER AT TWILIGHT, which has many chapters laying out, in full detail, which I paraphrased and posted snippets of. And he did extensive research, from original papers, notes, and letters. I suggest that you read his books!

Add to that, as background to what led up to WWI, there's FRANCIS JOSEPH AND HIS COURT, by Herbert Vivian, published in 1917 an is taken from the memoirs of Count Roger De Resseguier, the son of Franz Joseph's Court Chamberlain. I have a first edition ( 1917 ) of this, which I inherited from my great grandmother.And in it, written in pencil, by a woman ( a friend of my great grandmother's ) who was a member of this court, are corrections to incorrect info, as well as her own memories of what it was REALLY like!

From THUNDER AT TWILIGHT, page 192 :"......April 1914,Gravrilo Princep knew one thing for sure. He knew that he must reach Apis or at least one of his men. They would help him achieve his purpose."

"......an authentic agent of the Black Hand, the Serbian Army Major, Voislav Tankosic."

Tankosic claimed that he would make contact with Apis, but when the news of the Emperor's ill health came, things were called of for a while.

p. 219-222 discusses how Princip and two of his friends met with three black hooded and black robed members of The Black hand, what the assassins were asked, what they replied, the oath they took, and that they were given cyanide pill.

I'm not going to type out each page in this book and suggest that you read it.

And as a prelude to the above, I have the first edition of the 1917 book FRANCIS JOSEPH AND HIS COURT by Herbert Vivian, from the memoirs of Roger De Resseguier, that was given to my great grandmother by a friend, who had been a Lady In Waiting at this Court and wrote in pencil corrections to some statements in this book, as well as some of her first hand memories of these times.

I shan't go into why all of this is a rather personal thing for me, but will state that I am of Hungarian descent and have written NO "fantasy" at all, on this thread.

131 posted on 09/13/2019 2:47:11 PM PDT by nopardons
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