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To: grey_whiskers; Melian; Bob Ireland
the story of Túrin and Nienor depressed me too much:

Dude. That story WAS harsh. For more, there is also "The Tales of Turin". The story (and more) in greater detail.

Tell me one thing. In the fall of Gondolin, Glorfindel fell fighting a Balrog, but showed up in the Fellowship of the ring to save the haflkings at the ford.

Hello?

Two Glorfindels or what?

I find the discrepancy somewhat appalling.

😉

Bagster


257 posted on 12/02/2018 12:12:25 PM PST by bagster ("Even bad men love their mamas".)
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To: bagster
Dude. That story WAS harsh. For more, there is also "The Tales of Turin". The story (and more) in greater detail.

Tell me one thing. In the fall of Gondolin, Glorfindel fell fighting a Balrog, but showed up in the Fellowship of the ring to save the haflkings at the ford.

Hello?

Two Glorfindels or what?

I find the discrepancy somewhat appalling.

Ideally, Elves do not die; their lives are bound to that of the world. They are 'immortal' but not 'eternal;' their existence is "measured by the duration in time of Earth." (Tolkien, Letters 204) However, with the introduction of evil into the world, death came into the picture and marred Eru's plan for the Elves. "The Elves were not subject to disease, but they could be 'slain': that is their bodies could be destroyed, or mutilated so as to be unfit to sustain life." (Tolkien, Letters 286) They can also die of grief--essentially, give up on life. For the Elves, however, 'death' is not a true death; the fëa never leaves the world. Instead, it flees to the halls of Mandos, where it may rest and find release from the weariness of the world.

This 'death' contradicts the intrinsic nature of the Elvish being by separating the fëa from the hröa, which are meant to complement and complete each other. Thus, Eru found a means to amend the situation. After a time of waiting in Mandos's halls, the Elvish fëa may, if it chooses, be reincarnated in a hröa identical to the one in which the fëa was formerly housed. The Valar were given permission and power by Eru to see to the construction of a new hröa for the 'houseless' fëa, and they can judge that a fëa may not be reimbodied, or at least not yet, in certain situations.

Normally, the reincarnated Elf remains in Aman. Only in special cases is the Elf sent back to Middle-earth, generally because he has some task yet to complete there. "Therefore, if they dwelt in Middle-earth, their bereavement of friends and kin, and the bereavement of these, was not amended. Death was not wholly healed." (Tolkien, Morgoth's Ring 365)

Glorfindel is an example of a reimbodied Elf. Many will recognize Glorfindel's name as the Elf who came to the aid of Aragorn and the Hobbits on their way to Rivendell after Frodo was stabbed at Weathertop. Frodo rode Glorfindel's horse to the safety of Rivendell while being pursued by the Ringwraiths. Many do not know, however, that Glorfindel was also a hero of the First Age who was killed while fighting a Balrog in Gondolin. "When Glorfindel of Gondolin was slain his spirit would according to the laws established by the One be obliged at once to return to the land of the Valar. Then he would go to Mandos and be judged, and would then remain in the 'Halls of Waiting' until Manwë granted him release." (Tolkien, The Peoples of Middle-earth 380) When reimbodied, Glorfindel dwelt for a while in the Blessed Realm, but eventually returned to Middle-earth, most likely around the year 1600 of the Second Age.

Source:http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/papers/Amaranth/DeathinTolkien.htm

260 posted on 12/02/2018 12:18:23 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: bagster
See my post #260 this thread. [5:5]?

Learn his comms.

261 posted on 12/02/2018 12:19:09 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: bagster

I think you’re trying to win the apalling trophe of the day or the week or ...


266 posted on 12/02/2018 12:28:19 PM PST by JockoManning (http://www.zazzle.com/brain_truth for hats T's e.g. STAY CALM & DO THE NEXT LOVING THING)
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To: bagster

DOH trophy


267 posted on 12/02/2018 12:28:37 PM PST by JockoManning (http://www.zazzle.com/brain_truth for hats T's e.g. STAY CALM & DO THE NEXT LOVING THING)
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To: bagster
***Two Glorfindels or what?***

The Tolkien Dictionary listing states: Tolkien returns the name to the Council of Elrond in the Third Age and speculates on Elvish 'reincarnation', since they were immortal, thus implying an extremely special status for this Elf who was allowed to return to Middle-earth; this could explain the archaic usage in 'Sindarin'.

I could look through my many Tolkien reference books, but I think the consensus is that - since Elves were immortal - those who died were sent to a special area of the Undying Lands until the end of the Ages of Middle Earth; Glorfindel, perhaps the same as Gandalf, an immortal Maya-type, was allowed to return to Middle Earth to fulfill a specific purpose.

311 posted on 12/02/2018 1:08:25 PM PST by Bob Ireland (The Democrat Party is a criminal enterprise)
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