Posted on 06/13/2018 8:15:31 PM PDT by Simon Green
Indeed, and the reason is simply because pistol calibers produce so much less.... Energy.
Exactly. But when you want and need stealth, the 5.56 does not cut it.
The 100 grain frangible work-around is just that. It still is half the power of a .45 standard ACP, if it is kept subsonic.
One of the really big problems with the 1st gen sub-guns is they are extremely heavy compared to locked-breach systems.
It should be possible to engineer a locked breach, integrally suppressed .45 or 9mm that weighs under 6 lbs, is compact, and is extremely controllable and accurate to 150 yards.
I would say that the reason is that the Hk MP5 platform has had adoption in just about every Western and Asian nation and has been adopted by US military branches and government agencies. The US Army even issued the more unusual versions of the MP5 to its air wing and ground forces (usually Military Police and helo pilots) so there is no retraining and support problem.
Hk would rather that their modernized MP7 SMG be looked at by potential buyers yet I don’t see this on the list which seems dubious. Hk seems loathe to join yet another goofy US Army program that will cost manufacturers a fortune, request absurd demands, and ultimately be shelved when the project is inevitably cancelled after ten years by the Army like they did with the initial projects in the Joint Service Sidearm fiasco which ended up with a screwy sidearm being selected by generals who based their decision on what looked coolest without going through real world QA testing.
If the Army wants a 9mm subgun, some of the hokey little manufacturers on this list aren’t a serious consideration. Get out of here Zenith. If they want an armor-defeating subgun, there are better options than anything seen in this list. FN P90 and Hk MP7 seem to be the Western leaders.
I cannot understand any effort to redesign the worlds best subgun that’s been around and defect free for 50 years. MP5 was way ahead of its time despite being developed from a 1950s design.
Why the big deal about sub-sonic? As if to say suppressors make anything go Pffft…
Having used several suppressed weapons for fun and games, both in pistol and rifle calibers up to 300WM, I see no real benefit as to “stealth”, once you go loud, everything stealthy is off. Further, the only real benefit of suppressed systems is for squad communications- and that is negated by other battlefield sounds, at least in my experience.
The slicky boys already have the tools they want in their toy boxes. Grunts needing stealthy sub guns? Along with M249s M16 family, M110s,M240s, M2010s and M2s? Hmm. Still not selling this former combat grunt/sapper.
Suppressed carbines and rifles and LMGs, I like. Subguns? For PSDs and Spec ops, okay, buy a few hundred, wait, we already have those....
Wasting dollars once again, like the many iterations of “tactical” camo uniforms.
Regarding heavy 22s, maybe if you run them as a pistol, but once you push them into moderate SS velocities from decent barrel lengths, they penetrate like crazy. I assume, assumed and will always assume any human target I am likely to engage, as a civilian or as a Solider, will always be armored. any other thought is dangerous.
One of my bosses kept one in his truck in Vietnam along with his carbine.
I can demonstrate from my own collection how suppressed subsonic calibers can sound nearly-silent. Or at least anything not remotely sounding like a gunshot. And to most people’s ears completely inaudible on the other side of a typical residential door.
There’s still a need for low-power and close quarters firearms where rifle caliber long arms are less than optimal. I’d consider VIP protection and sensitive area security (nuclear reactors, HE storage depots, flight line sentries, etc.) to be instances where the wieldiness and downrange effects of the SMG is far better than a shortened rifle caliber long arm.
Protecting a VIP entourage or a HVT building is important but not at the expense of innocent people hundreds of yards away. You might have heard about how the London police used to issue 5.56mm Hk G36C carbines to patrol officers and had to retract that idea after a few occasions in which they were used in responding to a terror attack. Turns out that firing 5.56 in one of the worlds densest metro areas is a recipe for hitting several things unintended.
Pistol vs Rifle chambering means the difference between a superficial .45 ACP dent in the sheet metal of a parked $165 million jet and a 5.56 hole that may ground that jet indefinitely until repairs are made.
This SMG assessment by the Army is likely more related to those factors than the battlegrounds scenario you have in mind.
Too bad the title states “conventional forces”....which means grunts and sappers and treadheads....not slicky boys or CID... they, as already mentioned, have boutique weapons.
Fair enough. Thank you for civilized conversation on a topic that really can get people going. Travel easy through your day...
An electromagnetic gun isn’t completely recoilless but at least there’s no slug of pressurized gas exiting behind the projectile. Virtually all the felt recoil is energy that went into the projectile and sabot.
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