Posted on 05/17/2018 2:31:51 PM PDT by dirtboy
.380 versus .32? What models? Also, best ammo. Looking for best combination of stopping power, accuracy and recoil. Not looking for this to be primary concealed carry weapon.
I have some of the same questions that you have- I’m looking for a alternate carry gun that is a little more portable than my 1911. I would like to suggest that you check out Academy (assuming you’re in TX). I was in the Round Rock location a few days ago, and their selection is very impressive. I WILL be going back there. Several years ago, I was interested in Stoeger Cougar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_8000) which was a Beretta, now made on Beretta tooling by Stoeger in Turkey. I like the rotating bolt action, Beretta design, and size. I heard that it’s still in production.
I wouldn’t want to pocket carry anything bigger than a Ruger LCP (and that should be carried in a pocket holster.)
I highly recommend this Hogue grip if you get an LCP. It makes LCP a little thicker but much more pleasant to shoot.
https://www.hogueinc.com/handall-hybrid-ruger-lcp-grip-sleeve-black
If you’re just looking for a small pistol and aren’t set on pocket carry there are plenty of better options.
G43.
The end.
RLTW
I agree.
Walther makes a real nice 22lr semi, the p22.
Not that big at all, can do 10+1.
Its nuts not to have a round chambered. Thats one extra chance at survval.
“For me... a .22LR auto filled with CCI Stingers.“
Yes, totally controlled accuracy. 8 or 10 shots, center of mass and done.
Nobody walks away with more than a couple of direct hits, unless it’s 9mm./S
KelTec p-3at
..........shot a six foot rattler the other day with mine while I was on my walk out in the country
For the same size and weight you can have a fine .380.
Ditto on the Hornady. For conceal carry, I lean toward the Beretta PX4 Storm compact in 9MM.
My Ruger .380 LCP is exactly the same size as the palm of my hand. It is an excellent concealed-carry weapon.
Outstanding and very helpful post. Many years back both spouse and I were using 380 (Walther PPK Made in Ulm) and 38 Special Taurus both of which were loaded with MagSafe ammo- which to my mind had impressive fps out the barrel but-— having experimented, the rounds (which had resin filled hydroshok tips also filled with small ball bearings/pellets).
If one was “up close and musical” straight on with a target— pretty devastating, however in real life situation- firing at a perp at an oblique angle or hitting some belt buckle or other— the round would fragment and be ineffective. So, went with a newer 38 Special revolver with laser and which takes +P ammo. The Walther still presents a problem, but not as much from reading your comments here- as it now has very well made Sellier and Bellot rounds, that penetrate gel to 16” or more depending on distance.
Also have a 1900’s 32 S&W I Frame which is a beautiful original plating, has a small almost “ladysmith” style grip, and can be loaded with the very 32 rounds you describe so well . Saving your post.
Any thoughts on all this? Particularly MagSafe. It was a
SWAT LEO friend that seemed to like them, but they were concerned about a round going through an apt. wall and killing someone next door.
A Walther in either .32 Auto or .380 Auto is a fine pistol. I own a FEG PA-63 that is a Walther clone by a former Walther-licensed manufacturer, but in 9mm Makarrov, which is a bit more powerful than a .380 Auto. It is at the upper limit of pocket carry length for my pockets, but a nice firearm. 9mm Mak was a Warsaw Pact police and military round for decades, so it is respectable.
As to the 1900 .32 S&W. As a collector, I would urge you not to carry it. Not because it wouldn't work as designed, but because if you ever had to use it for self defense there is a good chance the police would confiscate it for evidence. Who knows if you would ever get it back or in what condition.
.380 has more stopping power than a .32 and is very concealable and easy to carry - I use the Ruger but also own a Kahr which I don’t trust as much as the Ruger because I had to send it off for a ramp polish and extractor replacement new and out of the box....if wearing jeans, I can actually put the barrel end in the watch pocket and even a tight T-shirt will make it very hard to detect...I usually use a small leather clip holster (two leather flaps that the gun slides between and no retention straps/clips) because it is comfortable .
You said pocket pistol so the first question is what kind of pocket? Big difference between jean pockets and cargo pockets.
Jean pockets are very limiting and restricts you to very few choices. You’ll want the slimmest pistol you can find. I’ve went through several and have ended up with the little Keltec 380 P-3AT, it;s barely over 3/4 inches wide and hold 7 rounds. It has a nice smooth exterior with no sharp edges or hangups to grab the inside of the pocket. Unloaded it weighs just over 8 ounces. I only ask two things from a pocket pistol and that’s reliability and ease ability and the little Keltec provides both.
Ammunition is another concern. Allot of the new high performance mini rounds have some built in problems and most of it comes from their hollow point designs. I carry ball ammo for the little guns mainly because they feed like butter. Last thing a person wants is to have to clear a jam! Another bonus I get from ball ammo is penetration, something the little fast flying ashtrays lack.
With cargo type pockets your opened up to a wide variety of pistols and just about any small frame revolver of auto will work so I will not recommend any specific brand but I will say I have a 365 SIG headed this way for just such an occasion. I wear cargo shorts allot during the summer months. Ammunition options open up also but I still recommend ball ammo on anything less than a 9mm in a a semi. Revolvers you can pretty much carry any ammo you like but again I look for penetration so I would stick to the heavier bullet weights if possible.
For those who claim the 380’s 32’s and 22’s are too small need to remember the Reagan assassination attempt. 22 caliber snubby (2 1/2 inch RG), 6 rounds fired with four hit, 3 on the ground after the shooting ended. Once you start poking holes in somebody it’s a game changer!
One more recommendation, and it’s a little tougher on the left handed married folks, no rings on the hand you draw with and preferably no watch. You don’t want anything interfering with you drawing that pistol.
I carry a Ruger LCR in .357. Its only 5 shots, but one would never have an empty cylinder or a jam - both death sentences in a gunfight.
I have several pocket pistols that I purchased comparatively recently.
Guns that are not range guns - no fun to shoot, and not terribly accurate unless you have a laser, but still good enough to hit at close range. “Gun beats no gun”:
The KelTec p-3at is by far the smallest, lightest, and most concealable .380 in every way. It is so close to the dimensions of my iPhone in all respects (weight, height, thickness, and length) that no one would suspect I am carrying, nor would anyone ever decide not to carry because of its size, weight, or inconvenience.
Unloaded weight 8.3 oz
Height 3.5”
Length 5.2”
Width 0.77”
It is unpleasant to shoot and definitely not a range gun. However, with the Crimson Trace, I can quickly put six rounds in a 2” target at 15 feet. Without Crimson Trace? The sights are more of a hint than a usable feature, but it’s adequate as a belly gun at such short ranges that there is almost no need to aim. I have not had any issues with this gun using any ammo, even the cheap, bulk ammo I used for 300 rounds of target practice (yeah, I practice with that awkward gun).
The Ruger LCP 2 in .380 is about the same size but heavier than the KelTek.
Unloaded weight 11.4 oz
Height 3.71”
Length 5.17”
Width 0.75”
It’s no more pleasant to hold while shooting except that it does have a better trigger (Ruger’s LCP, as opposed to the LCP 2, has a terrible trigger, far worse than the KelTek!). Again, I went with a laser (Viridian), and accuracy is good with the laser. Without the laser, it’s slightly easier to aim than the KelTek without the laser, but the sights are still useless except at very short range.
Neither of these would be a good choice in a real gunfight, exchanging rounds with an armed criminal. They are, however, the perfect choice for making sure you have a gun in close-range encounters when a criminal doesn’t expect you to pull a gun and shoot before he can react.
Bigger/heavier guns that shoot better than the above and can actually be fired for target practice without feeling unpleasant and awkward:
The Walther PPK is slightly bigger than the Ruger LCP2 but noticeably heavier.
Unloaded weight 22.1 oz
Height 3.8”
Length 6.1”
Width 1”
It is also much more fun to shoot - the first gun on my list that shoots well. Trigger pull double action is 13 pounds, so I won’t be doing that, but it’s only 6 pounds single action. It’s beautiful, comfortable to fire, and amazingly accurate. I hate having non-adjustable sights, but it averages 1/2” low at 25 yards (yes, yards) and dead center with the factory-mounted sights. For some reason, their front sight is extremely narrow compared with the rear sight opening, but that works on this gun. It shoots groups almost as tight as my best full-size guns. I love it (but it’s VERY hard to find one). Mine does not have a laser, and I won’t bother getting one for it. It’s as natural for me as a 1911 - it just hits what I want to hit. Why distract myself with a laser I don’t need?
The Glock 42 is essentially the same size as the Walther PPK but a little thinner and much lighter.
Unloaded weight 12.35 oz
Height 4.13”
Length 5.94”
Width 0.94”
It shoots almost like a bigger Glock, not quite, but the dimensions limited what they could do.
The Kimber Ultra Carry in .380 is essentially the same size as the Glock 42 and in the same weight class.
Unloaded weight 13.4 oz
Height 4”
Length 5.6”
Width 1.08”
It shoots very much like a 1911, although not quite as comfortable as a full-size 1911. It’s also as pretty as the Walther, or perhaps even prettier. It has a laser, but the accuracy is very good even without the laser.
While I would prefer a full-sized pistol for a gunfight (really a .45 Auto 1911, or, even better, an AR-15), I would be comfortable with any of these last three in a real gunfight where I am exchanging fire with a criminal.
[Note: I am ignoring the 9mm options because you asked about .380 or smaller.]
General comment: A pocket holster is absolutely essential for a pocket pistol, even if you don’t carry with a round in the chamber. The holster keeps your pistol clean plus keeps you from doing something stupid. Glocks especially always require careful handling and a holster, but all pocket pistols should have a holster.
I’m not going to wade in on the round chambered question. That depends far too much on relative risk questions.
Loved the Bersa for my ability to be accurate with it. It's just the right size for me and I could pocket carry. Failures to feed and eject with multiple brands of ammo sent me to the LCP. Never had a failure with any ammo in the LCP. Shame. I find the LCP to be utterly reliable and annoying at the same time.
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