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To: Leaning Right

Wait wait wait:

If a bullet fired up into the air can come down with enough velocity to kill a person, why not a penny dropped from a high building?

Physics majors please opine.


17 posted on 09/20/2016 1:23:05 PM PDT by T-Bone Texan (Don't be a lone wolf. Form up small leaderlesss cells ASAP !)
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To: T-Bone Texan

If a bullet fired up into the air can come down with enough velocity to kill a person

...

Pretty much not true. I learned that here on FR many years ago. And like the penny, the reason is terminal velocity.


21 posted on 09/20/2016 1:27:24 PM PDT by Moonman62 (Make America Great Again!)
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To: T-Bone Texan
If a bullet fired up into the air can come down with enough velocity to kill a person, why not a penny dropped from a high building? Physics majors please opine.

Well, I've taught physics, so I'll take a shot at this. It has a lot to do with air resistance. And air resistance depends on two things, shape and mass. Do not neglect the mass effect! A bullet cuts through air more efficiently than does a penny, even if that penny is dropped on its edge.

30 posted on 09/20/2016 1:33:49 PM PDT by Leaning Right (Why am I holding this lantern? I am looking for the next Reagan.)
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To: T-Bone Texan
I would say that it's unlikely that a bullet fired into the air can kill you when it returns to earth, but I wouldn't rule it out entirely. [Nor would I rule out a penny. That could depend a lot on your age, where it hits you, and other circumstances.]

On the moon, or Mars, both would kill you just as easily as they would if you were shot directly in a comparable location.

Once a bullet stops spinning and starts tumbling, it has a pretty low terminal velocity in air, because it presents a huge cross-section of resistance to the atmosphere. However, if the bullet were able to reacquire spin -- maybe by being driven in a wind current -- it would present a dramatically lower profile, would have a higher terminal velocity and, if massive enough, might still kill you.

Pretty Unlikely, though.

The claim that objects return to earth with the same speed they were thrown or fired upwards with is only true in a vacuum.

32 posted on 09/20/2016 1:36:48 PM PDT by FredZarguna (And what Rough Beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Fifth Avenue to be born?)
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To: T-Bone Texan

Mass (and aerodynamics).


39 posted on 09/20/2016 1:46:28 PM PDT by jonno (Having an opinion is not the same as having the answer...)
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To: T-Bone Texan
1) Atmospheric drag on a moving object is a function of the object's size, shape, surface characteristics, and velocity. Any given FALLING object has a terminal velocity, that velocity at which the force of atmospheric drag resisting its motion equals the gravitational force acting upon it. Once this FALLING object achieves terminal velocity it maintains that velocity until impact with the ground.

2) A moving object's kinetic energy is a function of its mass and its velocity. EK = (m*v2)/2

3) A moving object's momentum is also a function of its mass and its mass and its velocity. P = m*v

4) Kinetic energy and momentum are different quantities, but both can answer the question "How much will it hurt when it hits me?"

5) What are the respective terminal velocities of a falling penny, bullet, and bowling ball?

6) What are the respective masses of a penny, bullet, and bowling ball?

7) What are the respective kinetic energy and momentum of a penny, bullet, and bowling ball?

8) Rate the three object is order of how much they will hurt you when they hit you.

40 posted on 09/20/2016 1:46:34 PM PDT by NorthMountain (Hillary Clinton: corrupt unreliable negligent traitor)
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To: T-Bone Texan

The short version is the ratio between air resistance and mass. That ratio determines something’s terminal velocity. Pennies are not as dense as bullets and they are also flat. Hence they have a high surface area for their size/weight. So they fall slower than bullets. Some people claim bullets don’t kill coming back down but that is clearly false as people die to errant vertically fired bullets all the time.


50 posted on 09/20/2016 1:52:23 PM PDT by TalonDJ
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To: T-Bone Texan

mythbusters has an episode where they do the bullet in the air test, straight up and at an angle. Fired straight up the bullet comes down tumbling at less than lethal velocity this is due to the bullet reaching zero velocity at apex and lossing its gyroscopic spin stabilization. fired at a 45 angle the bullet never looses gyroscopic stabilization and comes down nose first still aerodynamic and at very much lethal velocity.


62 posted on 09/20/2016 2:13:00 PM PDT by JD_UTDallas ("Veni Vidi Vici")
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To: T-Bone Texan

A bullet fired upwards at an angle will continue in a ballistic arc, and velocity lost and then gained to gravity will keep it lethal.

I forget what that angle is, and whether it varies by caliber or powder charge.

A bullet fired at a higher angle— or straight up— will come to a momentary stop before returning at terminal velocity, enough to cause pain and some damage, but not anywhere near just-fired-bullet speed.

This was tested on Mythbusters.

Note too that there are bullets that weigh more than pennies, and impact energy is a function of both speed and mass. To illustrate that latter point, a 50 pound child jumping on your chest from the back of the sofa (oof!) will hurt a lot less than a Chevy Nova falling the same distance off a wobbly jack, so use jack stands :)


63 posted on 09/20/2016 2:14:52 PM PDT by ExGeeEye (For dark is the suede that mows like a harvest.)
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To: T-Bone Texan

Depends on the angle the bullet was fired. Straight up it doesn’t come down with enough velocity to kill, as it loses all that velocity going up and just comes down at terminal velocity. At at non-vertical angle though it’s a different matter, it loses much less velocity going up and (depending on the angle) still comes down at a “proper” bullet speed.


69 posted on 09/20/2016 2:33:05 PM PDT by discostu (If you need to load or unload go to the white zone, you'll love it, it's a way of life)
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To: T-Bone Texan

A bullet has an aerodynamic shape. And the penny doesn’t start at 3,000 feet per second.


82 posted on 09/20/2016 3:14:44 PM PDT by IronJack
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