Posted on 09/06/2016 12:59:25 PM PDT by Morgana
“They have the best power tools.”
Here in NE Indiana, if you want the most bang for your buck hire a real Amish crew. Good work, low prices.
I figured they used power tools but never see them buying any at Menards or Lowes. Just building materials.
One of my customers operates an awesome power tool store in the heart of Amish country in PA. He’s Amish.
They were afraid they were going to start horse and buggy races on the highway.
> underage consumption of alcohol
BDD
I thought they used propane fridges, etc.?
I’ve got relatives around York & East Berlin Pennsylvania who strayed from that orthodoxy.
Suppose these guys, faced with using a circular saw or spending all morning cutting studs with a handsaw, said,`Screw it. I’m getting a Makita.’
That’s what they call them!!
It depends on the sect. The New Order Amish are the most conservative and tend to be against all forms of alcohol consumption. But other sects of Amish will drink wine or beer especially on special occasions although over consumption and drunkenness is not acceptable.
http://www.amish365.com/alcohol-and-the-amish/
http://amishamerica.com/do_the_amish_dr/
Some Amish make and drink homemade wine and beer (they are German after all) and some Amish in Lancaster County also grow tobacco as it is a lucrative crop and a few also smoke tobacco, but in pipes rather than cigarettes. For some reason they think that cigarettes are “worldly” while smoking pipes, not so much.
http://amishamerica.com/do-amish-smoke/
I was at a shopping center near where I worked in Manheim, PA (Lancaster County) where there is a lot of Amish and saw a young Amish guy coming out of the Wine & Spirits store with two boxes of boxed wine and going back to his horse drawn buggy. This shopping center BTW had designated parking spots and hitching posts for their Amish customers. I came across both Amish and Mennonites shopping at the Weis Markets grocery store and at the hardware store.
Another day coming out the grocery store I saw an Amish buggy parked and in the back of the buggy was two bright red gasoline cans. It could have been for kerosene however.
I love riding my motorcycle around Lancaster county.
You never know what you’ll see.
A big 1356 International tractor with steel wheels with solid rubber pads.
A gas engine powered round baler pulled by a team of horses.
Amish women using gas engined weed whackers.(They love ‘em).
Kids on scooters zooming down hills in front of the family carriage.
I had a repair done at an Amish metal working shop (inexpensive!). They sold just about every kind of chaw and dip in the world.
I believe it.
Of course they do.
They believe the Bible and they believe in rules, rules they make for themselves, each community ("settlement") making its own rules.
Rules are strictly enforced within each settlement, so many, especially young Amish, will move to other settlements where they find rules more compatible to them.
MD Expat in PA : "The New Order Amish are the most conservative and tend to be against all forms of alcohol consumption.
But other sects of Amish will drink wine or beer especially on special occasions."
Well, first of all there are no "sects" of Amish.
Amish is a denomination, a sub-set or offshoot of more numerous Mennonites.
Old Order Mennonites -- so called "Horse & Buggy Mennonites" -- are very similar in practices to Amish.
Differences include the fact that while there are many "New Order Mennonites" amongst Amish there are almost none.
That's because to be Amish, by definition, is to be "Old Order".
One reason is: historically if an Amish community decides to become "New Order" it typically doesn't last long.
Soon most of its members will either leave the Amish or return to an Old Order community.
But amongst Old Order Amish there are varying degrees of "Oldness" -- I like to say "Old Order", "Older Order" and "Oldest Order".
So each settlement decides for itself how "Old" they're going to be, usually based on history and tradition, though cell-phones are new & controversial.
Amish who allow cell-phones I call "Old Order", those who don't I call "Older Order" with Oldest Order being those don't even allow voice mail on the phones in their off-premises phone shacks.
In my experience the vast majority of Amish are "Older Order" or "Oldest Order", not "Old Order" like those in Lancaster County PA, or Holmes County, OH.
Amongst them gatherings of young adults are not in the least unusual, though these always have a religious purpose along with fellowship, networking and possibly meeting someone suitable of the other gender... ;-)
When I was living in northern Harford Co. MD I used to go to a golf driving range that also had a nice Putt Putt course.
As I was getting reading to leave late one Saturday afternoon after hitting a large bucket of balls, I saw a dual cab pickup with PA tags pull in and with some sort of landscaping company logo on it.
Four young guys got out – one black guy, one white guy, one guy who looked Hispanic and one young Amish guy. The Amish guy was wearing traditional Amish attire including the suspenders and the straw hat, but he must not have been married yet as he didn’t have a beard.
Anyway the four guys came to play some Putt Putt, presumably after having a worked on a job and on their way home. At first I thought it a strange sight, but then again, why?
There are a lot of misconceptions about the Amish, among them that the Amish are dour and aren’t allowed to have any fun or are forbidden to work with or have friendships with the non-Amish.
My brother, until recently lived in NJ and liked to go to the beach at Stone Harbor. One week-day not long after Labor Day, he saw several vans pull into the municipal parking lot and several Amish families get out. They spread their blankets and beach chairs on the beach and brought picnic baskets. The children played Frisbee or tossed footballs or played the in sand just like other kids, and some, both kids and adults got into the surf, although only knee deep; the men rolling up their pants and the woman hiking up their skirts to just below their knees.
My brother asked the lifeguard on duty and he told my brother that it was not unusual to see some Amish families there after Labor Day and that they would usually come mid-week when the beach wasn’t so crowded as so they would be gawked at so much. He said that some came from PA and some were from Delaware and they hired vans to drive them to the beach for the day.
Interestingly, while one would think they are dying out, the Amish population is growing and spreading.
The Amish population in the U.S. numbers more than 270,000 and is growing rapidly, due to large family size (seven children on average) and a church-member retention rate of approximately 80%.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_Amish_population
That’s not to say that I hold all Amish on a pedestal or all in great esteem. There have been exposes about alleged child sexual abuse that is often dealt with within the church and community and not always in a good way, although it is debatable how wide spread it is.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=316371&page=1
And then there is the whole puppy mill thing (which to be fair, not all Amish engage in but it is a problem here in PA) and of other animal abuses, such as of their horses.
http://www.wgal.com/news/charges-filed-in-alleged-horse-abuse-case-in-lancaster-county/41065878
In my experience with what I call "Older Order" and "Oldest Order" the retention rate is much higher than 80%, and criminal problems (i.e., the child abuse you mentioned) a small fraction of non-Amish averages.
Indeed, I'd say that for your figure of 80% to be remotely accurate they must be counting Amish who move from one Older Order settlement to another maybe not so "Old".
Of course Amish are human beings and like all humans are fallen and fall short of God's glory.
But they are sincere in their beliefs and in my experience do a better job with their own youth than us non-Amish on average do with ours.
It would also be correct to say that the Amish do not have one centralized church or one single church authority and decisions as to how to conduct themselves, how much or how little use of technology and what traditional customs should be followed or what customs can be adjusted and adapted given changing times, is up to the individual communities to decide for themselves although they may belong to a larger community and may defer to a larger group of church elders, even from a bit beyond their close knit community and locality.
Contrary to what the name would imply however, the New Order Amish are closer to the Old Order Amish and in some ways, in some communities, they are even more conservative than the “Old Order” Amish where it comes to using modern technologies like telephones or electricity or gas powered tools in their barns and workshops.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subgroups_of_Amish#New_Order_Amish
And the Lancaster Amish while “Old Order” they are more “liberal” as to use of some mechanization, is conservative when it comes to other matter such as “shunning”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subgroups_of_Amish#Use_of_technology_by_different_Amish_affiliations
While there are some Mennonites, the traditional or “horse-and-buggy” driving Mennonites who are often mistaken for being Amish, especially among the women with their starched white bonnets and long skirts and dresses, there are differences. There are also some Mennonite churches that are very “liberal” including views on gay marriage and other issues and they do not dress “plain”.
And even among the more traditional Mennonites whose women dress conservatively, most of the men do not - they dress in typical work type clothing, blue jeans, etc. And many Mennonites use electricity in their homes and many own and drive vehicles, even the women and they use modern farming equipment, although some may not allow TV’s or computers in their homes, so do to varying degrees. Some of the Mennonite women earn a living by running transportation services for the Amish and some also work outside the home - in factories or retail stores or even in offices where they are often employed as bookkeepers and use computers.
I worked at a “We Be Toy’s” store on the “We Be Baby” side of the store here in York County PA and sometimes the store in Lancaster for nearly a year and I often worked the Baby Registry.
And I registered quite a few Mennonite couples, couples where the wife dressed “plain” and wore a bonnet and when the time came during the baby registration to ask for an email address, I never had any that didn’t have one and it was usually the wife who gave me her email address. FWIW I never had a single Amish couple come in to register for the Baby register.
Over the years I've met many Amish from around the country, but never one who confessed to being "New Order".
Even the few with cell phones and pickup trucks (which they own but can't drive) insist they are Old Order, and New Order is something different entirely.
So what would New Order Amish be?
It would be the same as New Order Mennonites, which means, pretty much, just like "English".
They would have electricity and phones in their homes, drive cars & trucks and dress like "English".
And, I'm told, there are some New Order Amish, but very, very few.
And the reason, as I posted above, is: once a community starts down that road towards "New Order" the almost inevitable result is that some will leave to become non-Amish while others return to their Old Order settlements.
So, amongst all 300,000 or so Amish fewer than 1% are "New Order".
At least, that's my experience.
It's possible there's plenty I don't know.
MD Expat in PA: "While there are some Mennonites, the traditional or “horse-and-buggy”... there are differences.
There are also some Mennonite churches that are very “liberal” including views on gay marriage..."
While virtually no Amish will admit to being "New Order" that is not the case amongst the more general category of Mennonites, who range the full gamut from very Old Order to entirely New Order, meaning virtually "English".
MD Expat in PA: "And even among the more traditional Mennonites whose women dress conservatively, most of the men do not - they dress in typical work type clothing, blue jeans, etc..."
The key fact to remember here is that the dress amongst all such groups is, in effect, a uniform which they must wear, depending on the occasion.
Whether that uniform comes straight out of the 1880s, as with Amish, or from the 1910s as with many Mennonites is a matter of custom, tradition and local rules.
And no settlement which applies dress codes to its members can be classified as "New Order".
MD Expat in PA: "FWIW I never had a single Amish couple come in to register for the Baby register."
Right.
That's because, almost by definition, there's no such thing as "New Order Amish", which is what would be required for them to have computers, internet, electricity, cars, etc., etc.
I’ve not had, nor have my family or friends in PA who have Amish neighbors have ever had any personal dealings with the Amish that were negative and while there may be some bad apples among them, those that fall short, yes being “human” like all of us are, I don’t think that is representative of all the Amish. But the insular nature of their society does sometimes lead to sweeping things like sexual child abuse under the rug as they would rather deal with it themselves rather than brining in the police, the legal authorities.
OTOH, truthfully the CPS and other governmental agencies and courts have not always done an exemplary job in this area either.
As to the puppy mills, and not at all to defend their practices (and I do not advocate buying puppies raised by them), the Amish see dogs as a commodity and right or wrong, they see breeding dogs much like they do raising chickens or pigs or cows.
But then there is the amazing side of the Amish as was shown after the Nickle Mines Amish school shooting.
The love and forgiveness that the Amish community, including those parents whose children were killed, showed to the family of the killer, to his wife and his mother and father, is something I think all people should strive for in a time of great tragedy.
Amish Community Forgives Family After Schoolhouse Shooting - Crime Watch Daily
Amish School Shooter's Widow Finds Peace in God
Forgiven: The Amish School Shooting, a Mother’s Love, and a Story of Remarkable Grace
There was also the case of a young man in Indiana, Chandler Gerber who was texting while driving and slammed into the back of an Amish buggy, killing three people, the mother and two of the children.
Shortly after the accident, he received a letter from the father, saying that he had forgiven him and wishing God’s grace on him and wishing him and his family well.
What’s the difference between New Order and Old Order Amish?
Your first link also confirms my previous statement that New Order Amish retain far fewer of their young people (2/3 or less) than Old Order settlements (80% to 90% or more, and much more than 90% is my impression).
This implies a higher failure rate of settlements themselves which confirms my point that "New Order" often either leave the Amish or return to their Old Order roots.
Your Wikipedia article says 4,000 New Order in 65 districts, but also lowers their retention numbers to 1/2 or 2/3.
Also Wiki says that 35 of those 65 districts are "non-electric" which means that for nearly all practical purposes "New Order" is just a name for them and in fact they live quite similar to other Amish.
Regardless, they are still few enough that I'm not surprised at never knowingly meeting one.
Bottom line: "New Order" is more often a half-way house on the path to becoming "English", and that's really why there aren't very many of them.
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