Posted on 05/16/2016 9:53:18 AM PDT by BenLurkin
Exodus 8:15
But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not listen to them, as the Lord had said.
Exodus 8:32
But Pharaoh hardened his heart this time also, and he did not let the people go.
Exodus 9:34
But when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunder had ceased, he sinned again and hardened his heart, he and his servants.
Incidentally, you were correct in your answer. Here is the proof;
Exodus 10:1
Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the heart of his servants, that I may perform these signs of Mine among them,
Exodus 11:10
Moses and Aaron performed all these wonders before Pharaoh; yet the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he did not let the sons of Israel go out of his land.
This is like two chess players moving their pawns.
I think you're confusing me. So yes it seems clear that the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart as more carefully examined in Romans 9.
This is the crucial point, DM. The Scriptures state plainly, multiple times, that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. At the same time, the Scriptures state with equal clarity, multiple times, that God hardened Pharaoh’s heart.
Neither set of statements cancels out the other. Scripture cannot be used to set aside Scripture. Rather, both sets of statements must be harmonized and reconciled with each other, because both are true.
The result is that yes, Pharaoh did harden his heart, and yes, God also hardened Pharaoh’s heart. So the answer to my original question is not either/or; it is both/and.
Does this make sense to you?
“It’s been seven hours and fifteen days ...”
Certainly but: Romans 9:17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. 19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor? 22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Every word of Romans is true. But no word in Romans contradicts or destroys any other word in the Bible. Three times God tells us that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. The third time is emphatic; it states that Pharaoh ‘sinned again and hardened his heart.’ These are actions that Pharaoh took for himself. It’s not me saying that; it’s God.
Which brings me back to my prior point. Our job is not to cancel out one or more statements in Scripture by claiming a different passage contradicts them. Our job is to ask God for sufficient wisdom to harmonize and reconcile ALL Scipture. The Bible does not state that ‘some’ Scripture is useful for edification; it states that ALL Scripture is useful for edification.
Above all we must not pick and choose. We must show equal respect for Scripture that supports whatever doctrines and theology we’ve adopted AS WELL AS FOR Scriptures that either in fact disprove such manmade doctrines, or else merely appear to disprove them.
DM, this is a crucial point. If you, I or anybody attempts to expunge parts of the Bible—even if we ostensibly use other Scriptural passages to do it—we’re in deep trouble. (Revelation tells us so.) Rather, we must accept God’s entire Word, and all the wisdom and edification contained therein, no exceptions.
In that spirit I put it to you simply and straightforwardly: are you able to harmonize God’s teaching re Pharaoh? Do you fully accept that both Pharaoh and God, at different times, hardened Pharaoh’s heart?
Jump!
No, I believe that it says clearly that God is first in the hardening and later it shows the effect from the perspective of standing there with Pharaoh. That's why romans is so clear in stating that God hardened Pharaoh's heart, He harden who He wills, He creates some for glory and some for destruction.
Why does He find fault when He is the one hardening hearts?
His answer "Who are you to ask?".
Contrast our positions here, DM. I’m saying Romans in its entirety is true and accurate, AND that Genesis in its entirety is true and accurate.
You are saying that Romans is entirely tre, but that three verses in Genesis are false, or at a minimum inaccurate.
If the Bible is a self-contradictory volume, then you could be right. But if the entire Bible is God-breathed/inspired, and if it is the inerrant Word of God, then I am right.
tre = true
As Jesus said, "The scripture can't be broken" and it also says "Ye are all Gods".
In 1Tim 2 it says: 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.
So women are saved if they have kids AND show the fruit of the spirit? Two of my 3 daughters don't have kids and probably won't.
Once again we encounter the EXACT error that led Calvin astray, and which his acolytes have not ceased to emulate/replicate. I.e.: an isolated Scripture is taken out of context of the Bible itself, and is presented as if it is God’s only word on a given subject. That is a prescription for unending Biblical misunderstanding.
Have you ever heard the names of Aquila and Priscilla? What does the Bible say about them? That they took Apollos aside, and while Priscilla sat mute, Aquila explained the way of God more accurately to him?
No. Here is what the Scripture says:
“But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him [Apollos], they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.”
I.e.: ***they***, Priscilla and Aquilla, instructed a man, Apollos.
Secondly, is 1 Timothy 2 the only place in the NT that teaches how people are saved? Are there, iow, other passages in the NT that instruct us in the way that God saves us?
Take Acts 2, the first Gospel sermon. At the end of Peter’s exposition, the people were stricken with guilt over their sin, and they cried out, ‘Brethren, what shall we do?’
Did Peter answer, ‘For the men, repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
‘For the women, bear children.’???
DM, you are making my point for me. You, or Calvin or anyone else, will inescapably fall into error when you isolate any Scriptural teaching without taking the larger context of the Bible into account. One of the first rules of hermeneutics and exegesis is that the Bible interprets itself. Meaning, when you encounter a Biblical teaching, one of the first things you should do is seek other Biblcal teachings on the same subject. Once you have investigated ALL that God has to say on a given topic, then you must harmonize and reconcile the various passages. This is not an exercise in selecting which passage/s you prefer, so that you can ignore the rest. It’s an exercise in learning how one passage explains another, and how the larger body of instruction that emerges results in ALL the passages being true and accurate. This is a more difficult task than merely selecting your favorite verses and using them to nullify the others. But it is the only way to arrive at faithful Biblical interpretation/truth.
Now, to answer your original question. There are no Biblical verses or teachings that are “against election.” Election is a Biblical doctrine, immanently true, and supported by the entire revealed Word. Otoh, there are countless verses that contradict Calvin’s misunderstanding of election. But one man misunderstanding a doctrine does not nullify the doctrine. Election, properly understood, is profoundly Biblical.
The key to it all is accepting the totality of God’s Word. The moment you find yourself using certain passages to reject and nullify others, you’re in error. When you take two seemingly disparate teachings/passages and reconcile them into one cohesive truth, you’re on the right track.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.