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To: fortheDeclaration
What does the fact that the 13 colonies allowed slavery have to do with the Southern States trying to leave in 1860?

13 Slave owning States demonstrates that the standard required to leave the larger Union was not contingent upon whether or not they owned slaves. They did.

We are talking about the slaves themselves, who the Southerner's would not allow to leave, but they wanted the same right to do so?

If you are going to focus on Hypocrisy, you need to focus on the Hypocrisy of slave owning Jefferson, and the Hypocrisy of slavery tolerating Lincoln.

Whether or not people are hypocrites has nothing to do with the fact that they had just as much right to leave the Union as the 13 colonies had the right to leave the British Union.

You are trying to make slavery an issue in one event, but refusing to recognize it was the exact same case in the other.

As I said, the American colonists had a right to leave the British empire because they had no representation in Parliament.

No, they had a right to leave for any D@mn reason they so pleased. The Declaration, (which you have seemingly named yourself for) specifies only that:

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

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Slavery was constitutional so it couldn't be eliminated until there was a constitutional amendment, which the North passed, despite the fact that some of their States still had slaves.

Well then if you think the war was about slavery, then perhaps you can explain why the Union forces didn't attack Maryland? The supply lines would have been a lot shorter. It was right there in front of their nose. They could have stopped slavery right there instead of marching hundreds of miles further south to do it.

One might say that judging by their actions, and their rhetoric, it didn't seem to be their primary goal. What did seem to be their primary goal was to insure that Washington D.C. could continue to clamp their claws around other people's necks.

Oh, and if it was constitutional, then what were they fighting that war for? It must have been for some other reason than to free the slaves, because as you said, they couldn't do that until they passed an amendment or something.

56 posted on 04/28/2016 3:01:50 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends,

The Declaration of Independence makes it clear that the only reason a People can disband their government is when the government becomes destructive to the life, liberty and pursuit of happiness of the individual.

That was not the case for the South, who had no just reason to leave the Union.

58 posted on 04/28/2016 3:05:15 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Pr 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation:but sin is a reproach to any people)
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To: DiogenesLamp
Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes;

The Declaration of Independence does not defend the right to disband governments for any reason.

60 posted on 04/28/2016 3:07:42 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Pr 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation:but sin is a reproach to any people)
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To: DiogenesLamp
The fact is that the South was fighting to keep slavery.

Lincoln was elected to stop it's spreading to new territories

The Confederate Constitution wrote in it that it was a right to enslave the Negro.

The South did not have the right to leave the Union like the 13 Colonies did.

The South had representation and was not being treated unfairly.

The reason Jefferson gave the reasons for the Colonies rebellion was because he wanted the world to know the patience in which the Colonies had endured British abuses.

The South wanted to protect slave expansion and was upset over the election of Lincoln.

So, the two cannot be remotely compared!

64 posted on 04/28/2016 3:12:13 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Pr 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation:but sin is a reproach to any people)
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