No Glyphs, but otherwise, we're covered. I'm surprised they took off successfully with the weight of what they carried around all the time. Thanks Retain Mike.
Posted on 04/18/2016 6:54:01 PM PDT by Retain Mike
GENERAL DOOLITTLE's REPORT ON JAPANESE RAID
https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/rep/Doolittle/Report.html
Three great men in one photo.
bump
You’re right; the Japanese screen had seen the carrier and they launched early. Even those that reached “free China” had navigational issues in the dark, and the crews bailed out as they ran out of fuel. I don’t know how much those crews knew about their chances of getting back alive, but definitely one of the gutsiest missions...
almost as bad as the loss of the those very experienced pilots was the loss of most of the very experienced aircraft mechanics and maintenance personnel. Most of the went down with the carriers.
Thanks for the link.
Actually, he was not a member of the plot. He was approached by a leader of the plot, but declined and ordered the man out of his house. He was a soldier, not a politician. Knowing the war had been lost, he was interested in finding a way to surrender to the Allies that would stop the destruction of Germany and its people. He was denounced as a member of the plot by the very person he had sent packing. He agreed to suicide on the condition that his family would be untouched. I have often thought that if Rommel had been allowed to live and Patton had survived the accident, the two would have worked together to avoid many of the problems of post war Europe. Unfortunately, the IFS don’t count in reality.
You are absolutely correct in his refusal to follow the edict of Hitler to execute spies or POW’s. He also refused to sacrifice his men in Hitler’s order to stand to the last man at El Alamein. He was a great man and loved by his men, as was Patton. One of my good friends was a “Patton boy.”He says when Patton walked on water, all his men could walk on water too.
Your friend may have been 3rd Army, that’s the crew that loved Patton best. My dad served in the 7th Army under Patton in Sicily and Corsica until Patch replaced him. He much preferred Patch, Patton could be a little prickly. Dad later served in Vietnam with Patton’s son, and found him an excellent officer who didn’t trade on his name.
“I have often thought that if Rommel had been allowed to live and Patton had survived the accident, the two would have worked together to avoid many of the problems of post war Europe. “
As far as where the borders were established? Or German acceptance of the occupation? I’m not clear on your meaning.
McAuliffe of Bastogne fame was commander of the 7th Army in Heidelberg in the mid 50s. He became fluent in German and was a very popular speaker at German civic events. This helped heal the wounds of the war.
Patton hated the Russians as did the Germans. I don’t believe
Stalin would have gained such an upper hand had Rommel succeeded in his surrender attempt. He was loved by the German people and could have been the natural leader of Germany.
Allowing the Russians to take Berlin was a monstrous mistake. There were too many Communists and left wingers in our bureaucracy even then. Roosevelt himself had been a great admirer of “Uncle Joe.” Thank God he dumped his former vice president in favor of Truman because the Commie stink was getting to well known even for Roosevelt.
My friend was in the Third Army. He fought across Europe with Patton.
Patch was a great general. One of my favorites, yet Patton was, is, and always will be my pick.
Both the borders and German acceptance of the occupation would have improved. Patton insisted on using the Germans for the jobs the Germans knew how to do. He was criticized instead of applauded. Rommel would have concurred.
Thanks for the update on McAuliffe. “Nuts” is one of my favorite comments. I visited Bastogne last summer and also Patton’s grave in Luxembourg. One can still see the foxholes in the forest and the remains of defensive perimeters our men dug. Time has not erased all wounds to the earth.....just as the craters at Point du Hoc are still evident.
The two men who could have shortened the war and healed the wounds were both eliminated. And so history marches on.
The decision on postwar borders had been set at the Tehran Conference in December 1943 between Roosevelt, Stalin and Churchill. The blame for the Russian occupation of eastern and central Europe lies there. I don’t see how postwar survival of Rommel and Patton, while desirable, could have changed much.
When Germany surrendered we were still at war with Japan and had no idea that the atomic bombs would work. If defeating Japan was going to involve more years of fighting and a million casualties we wanted the USSR to bear some of the burden. If we had violated the Tehran agreement Russia would have reneged on helping us defeat Japan and might have used the opportunity to take even more territory in Europe.
And in what EFFECTIVE way did the Soviet Union help us defeat Japan? They played us for fools! The Soviet Union intercepted the message to Washington which confirmed their surrender. It was delayed and the Soviets moved into the picture at the veritable LAST MINUTE! WE were the suckers.
The Atomic Bomb worked at White Sands. Why wouldn’t it work at Hiroshima? OR are you suggesting the Japanese people wouldn’t have surrendered even after suffering the bomb’s devastation? Perhaps that was MacArthur’s thinking as he was all for invasion of the Japanese mainland.
Obviously, Truman’s decision to drop the bomb saved millions of lives.
Roosevelt’s turn toward Stalin and away from Churchill is one of the reasons I find him disgusting.
You are correct on the Tehran Conference, but there could and should have been changes made. As I said, we were played for suckers. The biggest sucker play was creating the United Nations.
Japan didn’t surrender until several days after the atomic bombs. Militarist fanatics among them were willing to have everyone die in a glorious fight for the homeland. They were overruled by Hirohito and those who believed that Japan could surrender without losing face. The bombs gave them cover.
If Japan had not surrendered, estimated US casualties for the first 90 days alone of Operation Downfall were over a half million. The American casualty estimates for fully conquering the home islands ranged from 2 to 4 million.
No one wanted to do that alone if we could share the burden.
I agree with everything you said except the bit about sharing the burden. We shared the WIN when Russia had done nothing to earn it against Japan. Where were Russian troops anywhere from Pearl Harbor to Tokyo Bay?
Happily, Truman took the decision that he did. MacArthur favored the invasion which would have cost at least a half million of our boys.
Also happily, Hirohito wished to save what was left of his people.
No Glyphs, but otherwise, we're covered. I'm surprised they took off successfully with the weight of what they carried around all the time. Thanks Retain Mike.
“Unfortunately the Japs took revenge on the Chinese who helped the American fliers by murdering a couple hundred thousand”
I don’t doubt it, but the Rape of Nanking (1937) had already demonstrated their predilection for such things.
Thirty years ago or so I had a number of long conversations with an elderly Japanese man who was torn asunder by his service in China.
“They played us for fools!”
All day every day, right up until they collapsed.
And now, again, with Putin and the thousands of Russian agents in our government.
We are certainly on the same wavelengths. Most agreeable situation!
If I had been Eisenhower When Patton had said give me and army and I will give you a war with Uncle Joe I would have smiled at Patton and shook my finger at him and said don't you dare, then told him I am going to be out of contact for awhile here is your Third Army back George now (wink) stay out of trouble.
Your thought is great, however, Eisenhower was a politician more than he was a soldier. He didn’t have the balls.He was the beginning of political correctness and Brad took it to extremes. Ike became far too much of an anglophile for starters, and he ignored Patton’s good advice in order to play up to Montgomery—the spoiled brat of the war. Patton said Market Garden wouldn’t work, but Ike listened to Monty.
He and Omar Bradley, who owed every thing he knew to Patton, used Patton and tried to control his genius. I cannot tolerate false friends and Patton was used by Ike and Brad.
Monty never got the blame for the fiasco at Dieppe either. The entire plan was Monty’s. He was transferred to Nortth Africa before it was put into play, but nothing was changed from his planning. A MONSTROUS failure as the Canadians found out.
Ask anyone in France from Normandy to Lorraine who was the greatest American general of WWII. Patton wins hands down!
He wanted to take the German army and tech the Soviets a lesson. Too bad he never got the chance!
Doolittle took off in the first bomber so every man would see for himself that it could be done.
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