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Everyone Who Wanted More F-22s Is Being Proven Right
Foxtrot Alpha ^ | 09/25/2015 | Tyler Rogoway

Posted on 09/26/2015 2:10:31 PM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network

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Let me say I am (not) in the Air Force and don't have any inside information.

At all.

However I have always supported the F-22, and have never understood it's cancellation.

This article, seems to also do so. So I'm posting it, just for discussion.

1 posted on 09/26/2015 2:10:31 PM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/everyone-who-wanted-more-f-22s-is-being-proven-right-1732105884


2 posted on 09/26/2015 2:10:44 PM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

The F-22’s sin is that it wasn’t “joint”. The F-35 is joint, so it was designed by committee. And people wonder why it sucks.


3 posted on 09/26/2015 2:19:23 PM PDT by rbg81 (is pr)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Cancelling the F-22 was one of the worst decisions that could have been made.


4 posted on 09/26/2015 2:20:35 PM PDT by coon2000 (Give me Liberty or give me death!)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Having restarted programs several times, I can attest that they are much more expensive to restart than they would have been if the military kept them going. However, it is unlikely that the tooling was destroyed. It would have required an order from the customer to do so.

I can tell you how to make it substantially cheaper. Do away with all the insane political requirements; X amount must be built in somebody’s district, all the black and female quotas, small company quotas, etc.

I can tell you, though, that these are the last clauses that will be struck. More likely they’ll reduce the planes capabilities first.


5 posted on 09/26/2015 2:22:03 PM PDT by Gen.Blather
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Gates wanted it canceled because it wasn’t GAY enough for him.


6 posted on 09/26/2015 2:24:09 PM PDT by Rome2000 (SMASH THE CPUSA)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

The F-22 should have been built to replace the F-15E, which is what actually replaced the F-4, which is what replaced the F-100, which is what replaced the F-86; that is a two seat two weapon bay jet. Then, it would have been a real multirole aircraft. Even better if the F-23 had been built that way.


7 posted on 09/26/2015 2:25:02 PM PDT by Rodentking (There is no God but Yahweh and Moses is his prophet - http://www.airpower.blogspot.com/)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

At the time, the F-22 was solely air-air...had no air-ground capability until they started 1k JDAM integration in ‘05 and SDB testing/integration in ‘07-’08 timeframe.

The argument as I recall it was that with the demise of the USSR, there was no longer a need for 750+ F-22’s and reductions in purchases unsurprisingly increased individual unit costs.

With JDAM/SDB integration, it now has a multi-role capability...oh wait, according to many around here multi-role aircraft are stupid.


8 posted on 09/26/2015 2:27:09 PM PDT by SZonian (Throwing our allegiances to political parties in the long run gave away our liberty.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
Besides canceling F-22 production, stopping further F-15 development as a low cost force multiplier was a mistake.

I would think most all F-15 tooling was amortized, so continued airframe production with avionic improvements would have been a very cost effective way to keep a full fleet of air superiority fighters going.

9 posted on 09/26/2015 2:27:20 PM PDT by doorgunner69
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

The Air Force generals and K Street pimps who cancelled the F-22 and who are pushing to kill the A-10 should be put up against a wall and shot.


10 posted on 09/26/2015 2:29:40 PM PDT by Sirius Lee (Cruz or Lose 2016)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

The F-22 is the baddest Mofo in the sky.

It was cancelled by people who hate it for that very reason.


11 posted on 09/26/2015 2:30:01 PM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: Sirius Lee
The Air Force generals and K Street pimps who cancelled the F-22 and who are pushing to kill the A-10 should be put up against a wall and shot.

As always..follow the money.!!!

12 posted on 09/26/2015 2:40:12 PM PDT by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: Sirius Lee

By an A-10


13 posted on 09/26/2015 2:45:03 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Is it really all relative, Mister Einstein?)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

First, don’t worry, the AF is readying a next generation bomber that will dwarf the cost even of the F-22.

F-22 is designated an air superiority weapon system; meaning, other airplanes. This has been the goal of the air force for decades. One after another plane is proposed with no ground attack capability and, for that, no air-to-air cannon either. It’s supposed to kill the enemy plane at a distance (current iteration) over the horizon.

As a boutique weapon system, the F-22 makes sense. It gives the President certain options. Because of its stealthiness, it increases the likelihood we could engage a second rate military power and secure the airspace without losing any of our people.

Perhaps you would like to comment on whether the Army should be allowed to field fixed-wing attack aircraft since the Air Force isn’t concerned with that mission any longer.


14 posted on 09/26/2015 2:47:32 PM PDT by Redmen4ever
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
Sec. Gates, with the backing of Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., led the Obama administration’s effort to stop funding the F-22 in fiscal year 2010. The last aircraft ultimately was delivered in 2012. In speeches and congressional hearings during his tenure, Gates consistently bashed the F-22 — estimated to cost nearly $200 million apiece — as a symbol of extravagant spending on weapons that were conceived to combat the Soviet enemy but were no longer relevant in the fights against Islamic extremists or guerilla warriors like Hezbollah. He pointed out that China would not be able to field an advanced fighter jet until 2025 and by then, the United States would have hundreds of next-generation F-35 Joint Strike Fighters in the inventory. Gates also blamed expensive weapons such as the F-22 for draining resources from wartime priorities, such as unmanned drones and armored trucks.
15 posted on 09/26/2015 2:47:37 PM PDT by RC one (....and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,)
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To: Gen.Blather

I believe I saw somewhere that the tooling was being kept - just in case ... better to spend a bit more money to restart (unless there is something in the pipeline even more deadly) than to hang with the F35 program.


16 posted on 09/26/2015 2:50:05 PM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
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To: SZonian

They needed money to pay for MRAPs in Iraq. Gates said as much when he said, and I paraphrase, I don’t need F22s, I need MRAPs.


17 posted on 09/26/2015 2:51:41 PM PDT by RC one (....and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,)
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To: Redmen4ever

I’m not taking a position.

I don’t have enough background. But I support the F-22, and think we need to look at perhaps making a (lot) more of them.

Just saying.


18 posted on 09/26/2015 2:52:04 PM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html)
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To: Gen.Blather

Even worse here. Almost sure I remember they destroyed the tooling to make sure it could never be restarted even if someone wanted to.


19 posted on 09/26/2015 2:53:32 PM PDT by DesertRhino ("I want those feeble minded asses overthrown,,,")
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To: DesertRhino

“Almost sure I remember they destroyed the tooling to make sure it could never be restarted even if someone wanted to.”

Since it was gates and owebama in charge the tooling was probably sold to the Chicoms for 2 cents on the dollar.


20 posted on 09/26/2015 2:59:34 PM PDT by 43north (BHO: 50% black, 50% white, 100% RED.)
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