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To: UnwashedPeasant
The poison ivy analogy is perfect ... the question is, with booze, what for you or the person you're talking about starts the poison ivy in the first place.

Most drunks would say that the first drink is what starts the poison ivy ... or that in fact the first dink not only starts the poison ivy, but is also the first scratching of the poison ivy ... and hence the cycle.

It sounds like maybe what you're saying is "this person already wants to kick it out totally, the problem is actually kicking it out' rather than 'this person is looking for a way to keep it in his life, but controlled' ... If that's the case, that's my mistake in reading your original post ... I learned about it from a person who was not using it to quit, but to control it ... so I assumed that without even reflecting on it.

But even still ... I'm not sure exactly where you're coming at it from.

"just stop drinking' can mean 'once you've had one, only have, say, 3', in which case, your poison ivy analogy applies to 'once you've had the first' ... or, 'just stop drinking' can mean 'quit entirely' ... in which case your not talking about individual binges, but drinking in general.

I might (or might not) have insight that could help ... but I still don't know ... are you (or this person) currently. already, trying to quit for good, and failing at that? (no shame in that, I failed over and over and ... until I didn't, and then the poison ivy went away.)

So, do we have a case of already warning to stop entirely ... and the 'stopping' problem?

79 posted on 09/12/2015 1:55:50 PM PDT by tinyowl (peguin in transition)
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To: tinyowl

To me, the poison ivy analogy means this:

SCENARIO #1: Someone has no mosquito bite or poison ivy. It is easy for this person not to scratch. This is like a non-drinker or a social drinker with no drinking habit. He can take it or leave it. He can apply his will to “just stop drinking” and quit entirely.

SCENARIO #2: Someone has a mosquito bite. This person has a normal itch, but he can apply normal will power to stop scratching. If he does not stop himself from scratching, there is a weakness of will or psychological disorder separate from the mosquito bite itself. This is like the drinker who has normal brain receptors but still is compelled to drink.

SCENARIO #3: Someone has poison ivy allergy and is exposed to poison ivy. This person gets an itch that is not normal; it is a whole other level of compulsion. He can not apply normal will power to stop scratching. If he takes a Benedryl tablet and responds to it, the overwhelming itch goes away. If the Benedryl works for him and he still scratches, there is a weakness of will or psychological disorder separate from the poison ivy itself. This is like the drinker with opioid receptors that cannot be satisfied. The more he drinks, the more he craves. He needs it like he needs oxygen. If he takes Naltrexone, the opioid receptors will be blocked and the abnormal receptor craving will be blocked. If he still desires alcohol, it will be due to weakness of will or a psychological disorder.

For someone in Scenario #3, “just stop drinking” is as difficult as holding your breath until you pass out. It is possible, but it takes extraordinary will power. But this is the person who will respond to Naltrexone.


84 posted on 09/12/2015 3:42:38 PM PDT by UnwashedPeasant (A slave is one who waits for someone to come and free him.)
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