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To: DiogenesLamp
DiogenesLamp: "You just gloss right over the fact that all such were in their own Territory."

As is Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, whose new Communist government has never recognized the US right to be there.
And yet the US continues to man, resupply and reinforce our troops there at will.
No US action in that regard is an act of war against Cuba, but any Cuban military assault on US troops in Guantanamo is an act of war against the United States.

So the analogy with Fort Sumter, and all other Federal properties in Confederate states, is exact.

DiogenesLamp: "You also seemingly ignore the fact that they tried to talk compensation with Lincoln, but he refused to discuss the matter."

The US Constitution clearly gives Congress authority over Federal properties.
If Jefferson Davis was serious about any negotiations, he would have sent emissaries to Congress.
But of course, Davis was not serious.

DiogenesLamp: "There you go again with that 20% of the population "attempting to destroy" the other 80%.
Do you have any idea how silly that sounds? "

The fact that it took four long years to defeat that 20% demonstrates conclusively they were a considerable force.
Had the Confederacy gained the full support of all Border State populations, the ratio of Union/Confederate instead of being 4 to 1 would have been 2 to 1, and if the Confederacy's slaves remained loyal, then the ratio would be almost one to one.
The results would certainly be not just Confederate victory, but Confederate domination over whatever little was left of the former United States.

Of course, Lincoln recognized the strategic-existential threat, and soon found there were many more Unionists in slave states than some had realized.

625 posted on 07/30/2015 12:59:41 PM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: BroJoeK
The US Constitution clearly gives Congress authority over Federal properties. If Jefferson Davis was serious about any negotiations, he would have sent emissaries to Congress. But of course, Davis was not serious.

Preferably before they started winging shots....

628 posted on 07/30/2015 1:10:44 PM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: BroJoeK
As is Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, whose new Communist government has never recognized the US right to be there.

We stole the entire Island from Spain, so what was anybody gonna do about it?

The US Constitution clearly gives Congress authority over Federal properties.

In the same manner that English Law gave Britain authority over British Forts.

The US Constitution clearly gives Congress authority over Federal properties. If Jefferson Davis was serious about any negotiations, he would have sent emissaries to Congress.

Congress was not the sticking point. The guy with all the soldiers was the sticking point.

The fact that it took four long years to defeat that 20% demonstrates conclusively they were a considerable force.

When a man fights to protect his home, he gets a +5 on the attack, and a +25 on defense. Yes, the Confederates punched way out of their weight class, but that's because they were defending their homeland.

Had the Confederacy gained the full support of all Border State populations, the ratio of Union/Confederate instead of being 4 to 1 would have been 2 to 1, and if the Confederacy's slaves remained loyal, then the ratio would be almost one to one.

Had Lincoln allowed the Democratic process to work in it's normal manner, there was a good chance that such a thing might have happened. Lincoln locked up Legislators in Maryland to prevent a vote for secession. Maryland's state song still recalls this period of History.

The despot's heel is on thy shore,
Maryland!*
His torch is at thy temple door,
Maryland!
Avenge the patriotic gore
That flecked the streets of Baltimore,
And be the battle queen of yore,
Maryland! My Maryland!

VI
Dear Mother! burst the tyrant's chain,
Maryland!
Virginia should not call in vain,
Maryland!
She meets her sisters on the plain-
"Sic semper!" 'tis the proud refrain
That baffles minions back amain,
Maryland! My Maryland!

The "Tyrant" and "Despot" referred to in those Stanzas is Abraham Lincoln. :)

The results would certainly be not just Confederate victory, but Confederate domination over whatever little was left of the former United States.

That is a fact not in evidence.

642 posted on 07/30/2015 2:25:35 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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