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To: Hulka
At one point in my career, I was an investigator for the Inspector General of the Marine Corps. During my assignment there, I saw many serious violations of law and integrity some of which were covered up when a General Officer was involved.

During other periods of my career, I witnessed incidents involving the Air Force that were stonewalled/whitewashed: one was an incident where an A7 impacted a hilltop in Hawaii and an Air Force investigative team was sent to accompany me to the wreck site. They carted off some parts with them and claimed that all of the pilot's remains were recovered. I climbed to the wreck site a few weeks later and the majority of the wreck and pieces of the pilot were still there. I recovered as much I could find of him and brought it back down, The Air Force wasn't happy with me for discovering it.

Another incident a long while back was when the Air Force dropped cluster munitions on our artillery battery position in Vietnam. Through the grace of God, only a handful of Marines were lightly injured in the attack. An Air Force investigative team interviewed all of us to see why the weapons weren't more effective (!) You can imagine how happy we were with that approach..

The other incident that stands out was the Thunderbird crash and while back where the entire team hit the ground together. At the end of their investigation, congress wanted to see the videotape of the accident and formally fought to have it released to them. The won their care in the courts but the Air Force general in charge erased the tapes rather than turn them over.

I wish I could tell you that our system is built on integrity and "let the chips fall" ethos but from what I've seen, everybody is far too interested in promotion and the 7-figure incomes that come from a successful GO retirement.

84 posted on 07/08/2015 11:02:43 AM PDT by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
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To: Chainmail
The T-Bird mishap (T-38’s) was due to a bolt coming loose jamming the elevator and was reported in the mishap report as such, along with details, diagrams, photos of the missing bolt, imprints, metallurgy reports, etc.

There was a single copy made of the master mishap tape. No other copies made. Gen Creech deleted the fireball only, well after the incident and report. He did not erase anything prior to the fireball. He erased the fireball because he didn't want the fireball to be used for sensationalizing the mishap. http://www.gao.gov/assets/210/207430.pdf.

Page two has the most info and it is clear there was no attempt to hide or mislead or in any way impeach the MIB findings.

The tape was released to NBC. I am not aware of any congressional request for the tape, just a request to look into why the last couple of seconds (the fireball) were erased.

Regular mishap boards are not done in combat. Combat loss is not a mishap. A combat loss investigation is conducted.

The Air Force sweeping a crash site for remains is a sacred duty to all Air Force personnel. Everyone. The fact they missed some pieces does not support the charge of a biased/faulty investigation opr uncaring sloppy work. Usually the biggest piece that remains are things like a knee-cap or ankle. Pieces of the jet are all over the place, as you well know, and most times the only pieces that look like a jet are the engines, especially if hitting the side of a mountain. I find is difficult to accept that said ALL pieces were recovered. What is likely is major pieces we recovered, pieces that were essential to discovering the why. Pieces of the exterior of the jet no larger than a penny would not be useful.

Your examples date yourself, meaning the processes for investigating were different then as opposed to today. Today is much more refined, scientific and accurate, seeking truth and facts.

An Air Force team investigating weapons effects is NOT a mishap investigation team. In fact, in such cases there will NOT be a mishap board. There will be an investigation but not a mishap investigation.

You are confusing incidents that are not mishaps with actual mishap investigations. Common error, you are not alone. See: http://www.acc.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=2356

The Air Force mishap investigation process is honorable and clear and done with integrity. I can't say the same thing about the Marines since I never was part of a Marine mishap investigation.

86 posted on 07/08/2015 11:40:22 AM PDT by Hulka
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